but but...it is a work of fiction

This author (I wanted to call him something else) is a professor of theology at a Jesuit university?

Mr. Plummer needs to get his money back for this theology degrees. They're obviously defective.

okay...I'm confused. What's wrong with the article

1) The Church is out of touch with the culture

2) The Church has no moral authority due to the sex abuse crisis

3) The Church needs to change its teachings on contraception and women priests

Those are his three main themes

hmmm

3. Catholics disagree with the ban on conctraception ergo the Vatican is out of touch

when I read it, I took away that the Church has lost some of its moral teaching authority

Never mind the improper use of the word "conscience". Would he like to borrow my course notes from Moral Theology?

What part of "be in the world and not of the world" do people not understand?

I just read that section last night again....

The purpose of the Church is to challenge the culture, not conform to it.

and I think the Church has lost? misplaced? irrevocably damaged? moral authority

nothing is consistent

I think some bishops, especially in the US, have harmed their ability to speak with any authority.

The Church has moral authority because Christ gave her the authority. She can't lose that.

we have one crop of bishops who say you go to hell for voting for Obama and another set that say he's the greatest thing since sliced bread

FrCorySticha: I'll buy that statement

The problem is that people aren't less willing to listen to Her because of the bishops' failure to exercise that authority.

snup, no bishops have said you can go to Hell for voting for Obama. Not per se. That's twisting their words

who am I supposed to listen to?

*are less willing

Remember what Jesus said about the Pharisees. Follow the teachings of the bishops in union with the Pope.

AdoroTeDevote: To be fair, that's how a lot of the news media presented the issue.

Don't follow what the bishops have done.

Yes, it's how the MEDIA presented it, but it's not what the Bishops SAID

Oops, that got broken weird.

snupnjake: Don't listen to the Media. Go to the source and read what the Church actually is sayig

FrCorySticha:

How many Catholics bother to actually check the diocesan websites to see what the bishops' actual words were?

We have to deal with the media's twisting of their words.

We can't get upset with Catholics who don't know because they feed off of CNN/MSNBC/etc.

Agree.

AdoroTeDevote: so...the diocesan newspaper is media....

snupnjake: Let's try this again: Listen to the bishops in union with the Pope. Don't follow those things which are contrary to the Church.

how am I supposed to know which media is okay and which isn't

again, I know the next statement will be well go to the Vatican and read the documents

but I don't have the background to full understand or place those documents in proper context

snupnjake: This is why dissent is so dangerous, especially among clergy and educators.

snupnjake: You'll have the background if you go to the source and just READ it.

It takes a lot of discernment to figure out who is telling the truth, and who is twisting the Church's position for their own goals.

A diocesan paper is often skewed (ours is), but if they quote or name a document, while they might not have a direct link

you can find it yourself. If online, typically they link to it

Just TRY reading it. You are working on a PhD....you can handle it

hmm but a phd in education and before that physics. words have different meaning in different disciplines

so this is a great time to mention one of the reasons I left/hated/whatever the Church

I'm sure we here are all familiar with the Church's teaching on homosexuality

how it is disordered

disordered means bad ectera

I have gay friends. They are nice people. They aren't disordered.

why does the Church have to be so insulting.

Then Pope Benedict was elected. I was highly unhappy and believe I called him another hypocritical homophobe.

in front of a priest

did I mention tact was not my strong point

he sat my butt down and said where is this coming from and I said well the Church says all these people are disordered and freaky

I think he sighed and rolled his eyes

He's like that is not what is meant by disordered in this context and proceeded to explain it to me

now I properly understand the teaching

on my own, reading the document, I had come to the wrong conclusion

does this make sense

snupnjake: true, words DO have different meaning, but look at it this way; you can start reading, and then ask questions as you go

snupjake you are SURROUNDED here by peole who have studied theology and know theological definitions

How do we know how is in union with the Pope? Almost every priest or bishop will claim to be, even when they are not. Is there a list?

Also, I agree that the Church is out of touch with modern culture. Not in the sense that the Church should conform to modern culture but

that it should be shaping modern culture.

mikel1: YES!

mikel1: exactly...how am I supposed to know whose in union with who

overcome

he supposed to give a perspective on the book, or just bash Catholicism? Is the new book even dealing with Catholics? What was the point?

wow, didn't know women ordination was a forbidden subject and it's ban infallible - is that true?

fsieken yes JP2 definitively stated that the Church was not given the authority to ordain women. He exercised his Magisterial Authority

case closed.

jjoy i looked it up as i was quite surpised that such was deemed necessary. the document is fallible but refers to the church history as..

and tradition as infallible in this regard, but what if science proves otherwise? problem is it can't be discussed anymore

things like this (and there are more examples) boggle my mind, i don't think i am dumb but for 20y i can't wrap my head around other things

and i looked hard - as did others. i do understand the church needs to take a stand against relativism etc, but why a conservative direction

would like to see science prove that Christ gave the Church authority to ordain women...

what does science have to do with this?

mike_l i get the point history seems to contra-indicate (can't discuss!). will church ban time viewer invention? light of other days

dan brown totally historically inaccurate, but he mirrors popular topics, science vs faith, sexuality, orthodoxy vs (post)modernism

but church currently provides one of the best global religious infrastructures and framework, lets build on that. exposure (good/bad) good