is the speakeasy parts intended to be inmate-locked or no?

he is making a normal 100% public post that mentions the existence of the speakeasy ledgers.

actually there's technically only one ledger in the speakeasy but he thought pluralizing would make it easier to understand that multiple similar barigzen-created items exist

in his scenario where wardens run for monitor and inmates vote for monitor, a voting box that is magically secured similar to ledgers, would be in some sense "inmate locked"

also, he is aware that voting is, like... you would still have to ask the current monitor nicely to step down. because nothing but god himself can make a warden quit a job

daekie there is open spam...! if you need a bigger starter lmk
yarnzipan I am planning to edit in a more detailed Max starter. some stuff is happening so I decided to take a relatively short break

and if Ashton needs more to work with lmk

GOOD JOB WALTER

IDK if you saw, probably not, but Pyotr did tell Yennefer there was "talk" of voting for monitor positions, so maybe she can see this and be like HMMM

And they can meet?

lilbeejack

i did not know! but awesome

also relevant to you. when he says "several" in reality this is basically just "secret group AND LAURA!!!!!"

I like that he says "several." It makes it look like there really was "talk" and not just Pyotr saying there was talk to push a scheme him and like three friends made up...

yes. exactly

cheering for Lark's first comment, supporting it!

I'll take a look!

onemuon: In general Lark is ALL FOR things that empower inmates!

cannibalherpes I'm going to try to get Walter saying He's Mad About That Incident In The Past into our other thread soon but this is so funny because it would literally make "I know I'm the last person you probably want to hear from" FIT SO WELL

Hahahahah

justghosts he does work with him in the library <3

OMG I AM SO OUT OF IT which role does he have?

he is at circ desk! I can link the job thingie too!!

DESK

Yes please!! I'm usually up on this but it's beeen A While

"even including an apron" OMGGGG WALTER

YES. I HAD TO PUT IN SOME WALTER FANNY PACK ISM

although we have threaded a little Lark and Walter library collaboration before long ago, that desc is surely new to you haha

I LOVE IT SO MUCH

ancillaries: sorry for ashton coming in with full intent to troll. she will do it again

this is actually so funny, never apologize. first of all shipoftheseus shading your boy. second of all, Alex and I were talking for various reasons about the possibility of Collins doing the thing, and this would suit him lmao. AisuYoukai

this line came to me in a flash of insight and I thought on it for a moment. and then I decided that nothing I came up with using any actual thought would be funnier than this

completely straight-faced. consummate liar when it comes, specifically, to fucking with people

lol

I don't want to say literally "we were joking" but it was funny

I mean, Collins would love to kill people. But also he's not an idiot and just like in the fight club he understands he's completely outclassed by everyone here with anything above 'simply human'

Now if we're just talking taking the position up... well, funnily enough, I've also considered him for the position.

oh yes I mean "we wondered if he might take the position and so it's funny that Ashton proposed a fight to the death for the position, which would suit him" (except for above reasons)

hahahaha yes

(ftr, Collins wouldn't volunteer for the position because vote. what friends? why would he be voted for? ...but he would take the position if he was nominated?? and voted for. lmao. so yeah. i wouldn't expect him to make an appearance here, unfortunately.)

he might get mentioned!!

I will keep an eye out. And, well, technically Collins keeps an eye on the network so he'll catch most of it, too.

Trevor was/would be ideal but we all see what happened to him for being real.

honestly at this point Collins might be the best possible approximation of the original manipulation plan to get in Trevor

Vote Speakeasy

Richard Gere, Renée Zellweger - We Both Reached For ...

I was here like oh god I am running out of musicals. hey chicago is about murder. THIS ONE IS ABOUT BEING MANIPULATIVE. WOO

Hahaha

AisuYoukai Pyotr will bribe people to vote for him, assuming they can't straight up cheat and rig the election <3

(TRY to bribe people...)

HAH.Go for it.

Oh Lark and Ashton reminding me to explicitly say: this is a post of a group relevant topic! THREAD JACKING WELCOME AND LOVED!

has Jedao talked about Shuos succession to walter? I don't remember

but it's not really Trial By Combat so much as a string of underhanded assassinations punctured by uneasy periods of confidence that no one really wants to ruin

*competence

Oh my god are you telling me there IS more literal trial by combat than Jedao said. But yes, he said they have Klingon promotion

Walter is riffing on that

it's only for very specific positions!! the sports dueling is just for fun :3

I don't think Jedao even knows the word klingon though so I feel like one of us is confused

maybe i'm just forgetting things that's very plausible

Oh, I'm saying that he referred to extremely cutthroat behavior. I'm calling it Klingon promotion as a joke. I'll find the link just for reassurance

HERE we go

https://tvtropes.org/... like this also (again, "kill someone and replace them in the vacated position" is not exactly what Jedao said)

Pyotr: let's do bribes
Yelena: how would you prevent bribes.

im just picturing the first few episodes of Black Sails

where they all vote for captain and its just them going around bribing people

Yelena's more "how would you prevent threats".

also if the upcoming port is good, they can focus on getting bribes

stuff that can be used for bribes, i mean

Besides, even if you're running a corrupt farce of an election, you want to appear legitimate.

That's also here. I'm thinking this as Walter just like. Damn. Yelena you are so amazoness but also so depressing

She's Russian.

^ yep

EXACTLY. WALTER HERE LIKE OH GOD WHAT RUSSIAN THINGS HAVE HAPPENED TO HER TO MAKE HER FEAR THIS

being on the barge, walter.

that alone is enough

We need one of those checklists like

Like this. Barge vs Russia

btw another talking point of Walter's is the chapel like yeah Vincent is right. Multicultural not neutral. But this may be a moot point with new guy

AH okay, yes - thank you

I do think Pyotr would see the Admiral's attempts to pacify the concerns of 21st century "western liberals" as similar to 19th century Tsarist attempts to pretend to Europe that Russia is "enlightened."

like with how Collins was pretty much told directly to just lie for the sake of appearing like there's rules, lol

or how the floods and breaches are just "bad driving"

onemuon for sure!!! I saw this pop up on my reading page and haven't been able to read it yet but on my way to it now

yay

Yay!!

Walter's response to Max is kind of cute..

Debating on throwing Wu Xin into that with a 'not here' post. But I didn't know Walter was in a coma.

Exactly while Wu Xin was in meditation!

So he missed all the shoes?

He did!

Might be for the best.

just letting it be known that I'm making an edit to the post but only because I left the title in the body of the post

maruah if you want to look at any of this also

I'm gonna be taking a break for dinner and Show and non post tags. Also anstaar since Vincent V was like "so it's just an experiment with Norton? What about the other monitor? Or the zero wardens? Where does this end?" I have various Xie Lian thoughts

Basically "we talked about it before and he was also open to the idea but again as you point out it kinda depends on whether literally anyone else wants to do it"

Oh hi!

Me and Lenga became plurk friends because of this post!

link to xie lian mention

Clasps your hand. I am so glad to have well plotted thoughtful CR even though it is likely negative! Spice of life!

Yeah!

/clasp hands back, refers to magicom emoji

quantumvelvet You don't happen to have that link handy with the public doodad with Norton?

I'm going to feel dumb if you already linked it on my plurk. XD;

I can find what I believe it is

here

Thanks!

hahahaa omg no wonder I missed it. XD;

Yep, that's it. (Yelena's threshold for taking note of network shit is notably high.)

(I as the player) though I'll give Vinnie a demrit too this time.

(This isn't the first time she's gone "pay the fuck attention to things" over something that c'mon, people are not going to catch and remember without her specific background, social ties, and interests.)

No I'm just giving Vincent a demerit because it would be way too difficult to retcon everything. He would have noticed. I, the player, missed it because it's not the TL discussion of a completely unrelated topic. That's on me tho. XD

Makes for good fodder. Though he will probably go back scrolling to look. I think these things are historically archived right? quantumvelvet

They are, but they aren't searchable iirc.

If he asks, she'll link it to him.

Fair, fair. He might have to send a wry joke about how nested it is later when he jogs his memory/finds it. XD

She's bitey, but she actually believes the whole...elected monitor thing might be beneficial.

Yeah I'm not really sure linking even works IC. We're scrolling all day for a large number of types of network use. I have fun coming up with techniques for Walter to use because when it's voice he literally doesn't have time

To listen to every second of it

But yeah like Walter didn't expect Vincent to know about that. Just, he is frustrated with other aspects

Well, linking could be shorthand for "discussion falling out from the post from this userid about the poles, not to be mistaken for polls".

This also, nod

There's benefits to it, Vincent can see that. His concern is the speed it's being pushed to the foreground beyond the original think tank.

Almost no details, etc. Very concerning so it's eyeballed.

Hey, he's been asked for a proposed alternate timeline a couple times now, with...varying levels of sincerity.

Sorry alternate timeline? And also if it's something I haven't responded to yet I'm typin'! ;o;

Walter is just here thinking "ugh I should have just said one month discussion one month voting, would that have avoided all this??? Slipped up on the starting line"

Regarding an alternate timeline, Walter's uncharitable interpretation and answer would be
Vincent: you're ridiculous saying two weeks discussion two weeks voting
Walter: okay then how long do you think it should be, and don't say it depends because I also said it depends
Vincent: it depends

And I almost had him reply just now (like this minute) "I'll ask again, how long should it be?" but went with something a little different

Hahaha. Well he DID detail out WHY it depends. Not just said it depends.

Oh I see!

Okay ALSO sorry I am slowing hella down and missing more than just things in these tags so I might be a bit delayed here. Chipping away tho!

justghosts do you want to edit your comment so I can answer? (Of not knowing where Walter works)

ancillaries: OH yes I do! can you link me? I'm on my phone right now

loinkety!

I UNDERSTAND THE PHONE LIFE. I have received a big tag I wanna open for the first time on desktop so I can see all the text without scrolling

Thank you!!

A little too tired to tag today...

ALRIGHT. Bumping this because good turning points have occurred in many of the conversations on the post

If no one has ideas for major new stuff, I am currently gonna be pivoting my energy towards new stuff elsewhere like "haha maybe it should be Collins" (WHILE STILL THREADING e.g. Thrawn is a case of like. medium level of new idea)

Sorry it took me a bit to get back to those threads! ;_;

Vincent's questions are actually a few things he'd like to say on his particular view but maybe not panic everyone on an open network about. Maybe. o_-

But either way for now thank you for following through so far!

It's no problem, I was on a break for like four days. And please don't be discouraged!! More like "DEFINITELY TELL R ANY OTHER IDEAS YOU HAVE because I love them and want to be sure I am not missing them"

Ok I see your comment now

Of how Vincent might wanna meet Walter later

Folds hands business style. What are your thoughts!!

Tell R? (I don't know all peoples active use player names so is it just R?) AND p. much it's a balance of whether Vincent WILL tell Walter some of the reasons why he thinks it's dangerous in full. Like not because omg why don't you trust Wardens or Admiral?! But very pragmatic ones that have to do with the ship.

But also whether he would trust Walter with these notions because... well, Walter showed signs of wanting to twist what he was saying so he's not 100% sure it'd be a good idea to give the man more fodder to use either. On the idea that Walter might not have thought of it himself.

Oh no that was a typo! I meant "definitely tell me"

But loooooosely there's a 'okay if you make things worse between wardens and inmate' with unspecified, under-defined things like this, then everyone suffers. Because the ship and the energy it gets runs on change. Maybe from Wardens and Inmates alike but the obvious leaning is on the change from inmates.

So every time things slow down or make that change climb worse, it's like shooting their life support. Or forcing the Admiral to make even MORE dangerous choices to obtain energy now that he's not linked to the Authority.

Ones that often seem to put a lot more risk on the inmates and wardens /o/

So Vincent is like '...okay you throw up any old thing that incites activism or spite, it falls through, inmates hate THE SYSTEM more, change falters more, energy reserves go ???. what now genuis'

And also Vincent has to talk to the Admiral, he's been getting questions assembled to see what he can get answered. /puts more down on to do list. @_@

Maybe a system that feeds on the souls of inmates is bad and should fall, Vincent.

And wardens. No one says it's feeding on the souls. But that being said he can agree to that sure. But if you don't have a safety net to catch you when the life support runs out?

onemuon: Is his way of thinking. XD

I can definitely see why bringing up matters like energy would be something he'd be very circumspect about. Walter is the same way. He tries to avoid talking about it when possible because he doesn't want to draw attention to the fact that genuinely blowing up the entire ship with passengers on it is the only option for true escape

Yeah and also that sort of thing can definitely incite panic and uproar in a way Vincent is trying to avoid.

Both because Walter doesn't want wardens to worry about the possibility of ship getting blown up and get restrictive, and because he doesn't want inmates to actually go that far (PYOTR!!! PYOTR PLEASE CHOOSE TO LIVE!!!)

(And also hey, if there's a group of people around here that know why burning souls for fuel is bad FF7 Cast is gonna be among them XD)

But "burning souls for fuel" is the logical conclusion with how graduation gets explained as a "permanent change in the soul" and graduation literally fueling the ship...

Vincent will be careful because he really DOESN'T know much about Walter and his intentions. But I think if it becomes apparent that there is a line Walter will genuinely NOT CROSS he may open up some.

Honestly when Walter said "a permanent change in the soul" that one time he was more trying to explain this idea that he'd heard expressed that graduates/wardens are fundamentally good in some subjective and impossible to explain way. Because wardens (WELL THEY'RE NOT A MONOLITH) are clear that graduation is not e.g. regretting murder, it's not ONE thing

What wardens (NOT MONOLITH) claim about Graduation is very confusing and arbitrary to Walter, which is why he so readily believes it actually means the "cult" completely breaking down a person

It would be very interesting to see whether Vincent and Walter can open up to each other as that could naturally be very difficult for both of them

Yeah! o_o

Because cutting life support IS the line he won't cross... like the narrenschiff where there was interference with their OXYGEN

That frooog

Well the frog was an accident. Nana is an angel. (Walter's pov) But "everyone else" (not a monolith, but a large number of people) then knew that similar actions (BREAKING THE MAST) could have similar effects and did them anyway

So this has made it completely impossible for Walter to believe that graduate / warden status measures true goodness

Permanently murdering several dozen people... is bad

Vincent also does not think graduate/warden means good.

As in, taking actions that have a serious risk of causing "disappearances" is bad

Change does not mean GOOD

Okay. I gotta go back to focus on tags and such. My inbox isn't getting any smaller! And I got tag outs to do! Sneaky things to talk to people about!

Vincent's got some Turking to do.

(Ashton voice) Nooooo. Really? Murder is bad??? What's your point here, Saint Teresa, is it that 'blowing up the Orlop Deck and breaking the mast was evil'? Total and complete revelation -

on the other hand she still doesn't know what a lolcat is. so that takes all the air out of it really

this is SOOOOO interesting from the standpoint of instability on the ship jeopardizing the energy...

there's actually an IC write-up of the ships available in the library if Walter does want to learn more

(it's basically just the OOC information made ICly available bc Tim Stoker took it upon himself to learn everything about them from the other bargizens and make it publically available)

Yes this is what he's talking about with the analog propaganda archive

This is a talking point Walter and Pyotr privately have not so much because the archive strikes them as false but because they find it kinda focused on how bad the other ships were, in the context of other events that don't get archived as heavily like the flotilla crash and short term inmate survival

that's more that the character who kept the archive left

But anyway it occurred to him that whether or not the hold got weakened was legitimately confusing. For example I believe that a tree on the clipper was damaged and that actually seems kinda similar to the mast. But the terminology used like "energy" and "the hold" wasn't necessarily the same. So that is where Walter is coming from asking Malcolm

and also no longer had supernatural archiving power at that point

(Walter wasn't actually explicitly told the mast is the symbol/heart of the Narrenschiff either. He just extrapolated from "damaging ship = damaging hold" that it was really large damage and seemed to be a turning point, morale point)

https://lastvoyages.drea... Admiral did tell them to give theem hell though.

(I only know this because I was in game and remember it)

omg??? Ok thank you cause I did this we talked about this before like gasp it's the trigger word...

Did think *

Yeah 😂

Pyotr would ask Walter why he would believe anything Malcolm says given that Malcolm is confirmed liar (Pyotr's ic opinion; he thinks Malcolm is a liar because Malcom said he could ask the Admiral to release him if he didn't want to be on the Barge.)

Has he asked? /eyebrow raise

Also Malcolm wasn't there when those ships happened so he only knows what Raylan told him.

And Raylan didn't tell him that.

Yes, I figured ooc, and like I said, I myself only know because I remember (because I remember stuff from 3 years ago in RP, as opposed to literally anything useful like what I studied for a degree.)

ditto

Yelena did literally publicly ask the admiral if there would be any chance to let go and die and he said no

But yeah Walter isn't necessarily here like "oh ok! Whatever Malcolm says is so right. I should tell Pyotr these new facts that were clarified that I learned"

Walter would sure feel some feelings if he knew Malcolm had heard Pyotr literally begging for death lol

Pyotr is a nihilist, Walter. He took it as an intellectual exercise more than a suicidal ideation.

Honestly Walter's #1 priority in this conversation is literally just heading off "how dare you assume that I support the latest atrocity by the admiral, whom I literally work for, for non-essential "dream life" winnings, and do not oppose on any specific concrete points" for his own peace of mind and sanity

next question

Pyotr wasn't literally begging for death at that point, to be fair to Malcolm.

Pyotr still had a will to live back in those days :')

Not much of one, but more than he has now!

belatedly tossing Ulla in here

because, YEAH. She was an inmate before the position existed, was (followed soon after by Trevor) the inaugural warden in the role, and she doesn't disagree with Walter

she burned out hard, but she thinks it's important and she does think inmate trust is a major factor in its effectiveness

Ulla 💜

I actually think the idea of Sweeney being the inmate to reach out to for at least one inmate and one warden making a voting system would be really interesting...

arthur would vote for sweeney

mmhmm

also

Me here like oh my god. I have to add fighting simulation to my plotting list

Asking for help is how Collins would have to deal with a majority of newcomers lbr. I've already considered who he would fall back on to help him with certain situations.

He needs more friends. lol.

I AM sending Walter to his open post soon

Florian! for the people playing along at home

*WHEEZING*

He granted this so it might literally happen?????

Exactly!

here is the Vincent Valentine "graduation is life support" conversation

Hanna's current restrictions on CK also involve notifying him of who CK was interacting with when his no harm clause is set off.

Similar with Collins when he was an inmate, his warden was alerted when Collins did damage to anyone (including himself) so he could be immediately tracked down. It's simply a case of 'you have to ask for it'.

Ofc the context of 'new arrivals' being the case helps put it into perspective, and who knows if the Admiral will do it for non-paired inmates. Now that I've seen said context.

I'm trying to catch up on things here because I saw my name and the question he asked the Admiral. Why is that being brought up? As an example?

But for what.

And also that list of questions being assembled and on my to-do list to get through soon. XD

maruah: specifically when the admiral replies that the power of change is the main energy, I'm like ohhhh in terms of Vincent worrying about what happens if graduations slow down

Yup. Well that's one of the reasons he considers things that way. But ALSO why he doesn't speak about it. XD

Also shall we start that 'coming to visit Walter to talk' thread soon?

I'm totally down! But I'm still planning to make new network post Monday. Does this timeline still make sense to you?

Yup.

I don't foresee there be anything about VIncent and Walter's talk being... you know, against not making that post one way or another.