Calaban shares
14 years ago
a liberal leaning post for your morning reading.
latest #27
Daningo says
14 years ago
Have you seen any posts on what programs got cut - detail on the budgets for the riot areas? Is there correlation?
Calaban
14 years ago
I suspect that one would have to listen to BBC much more thoroughly than I do to have this info. I listen for ten minutes here and there.
Calaban
14 years ago
Plus, correlation doesn't work like that, I don't think. Correlation is almost never 1:1 when it comes to social or collective action.
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Calaban
14 years ago
It tends to run in sets--12:1. Put differently, you would have to see changes to multiple programs, which produces widespread resentment,
Calaban
14 years ago
which then leads to anger that is set off by a "triggering event." The triggering event in this case was the shooting. That pattern
Calaban is
14 years ago
fairly general, at least, for the US context.
Calaban
14 years ago
It is a pattern I teach in my course on civil rights, when I discuss the violence--racial hate crimes and urban riots--aspects of that mvt.
Daningo says
14 years ago
I get that the resentment spreads beyond those directly impacted by cuts so there may be no correlation to the final rioters,
Daningo says
14 years ago
but it would be good to see evidence that there was actual impact from the cuts vs rumor (I'm not looking for anyone here to provide that)
Calaban
14 years ago
I understand that you are not asking anyone here to provide that evidence, but it is still an interesting research question that is useful
Calaban
14 years ago
to our political conversations. What sort of evidence demonstrates impact?
Calaban is
14 years ago
testimony of a rioter that s/he has been hurt by cuts good evidence for impact? Are statistics about relative wealth trends, that the poor
Calaban
14 years ago
get poorer, good evidence? Is evidence that unemployment in the section of town were rioting occurred increased by 2% good evidence? I'm not
Calaban
14 years ago
asking to be confrontation, but to both illustrate the complexity of the task/research involved and to show how easy it is to disagree
Calaban
14 years ago
about policy issues, because what is good evidence for one party is bad evidence for another. First, one agrees on the relevant question.
Calaban
14 years ago
Then one agrees on a method for answering the question. Then one needs to agree on the evidence that illustrates the answer.
Calaban
14 years ago
Then there is the need to at least begin to agree on an interpretation of the evidence.
Calaban
14 years ago
This is the process that needs to happen, and it precisely that process that doesn't happen either among politicians or among citizens who
Calaban
14 years ago
disagree about public policy.
Daningo says
14 years ago
Yes, those are good points to apply - one specific example I'd like to see would be a geographic impact of the specific program cuts blamed
Daningo says
14 years ago
as a causal factor - those could conceivably be determined by the UK govt from check records, programs shuttered or reduced
Daningo says
14 years ago
I do think testimony from residents about the impact of cuts is valuable, but discount second or third hand testimony
Calaban says
14 years ago
the research on political persuasion is pretty clear that most folks, regardless of their political preference, are persuaded not by info or
Daningo says
14 years ago
You are going to the same place I was - to an extent, facts and evidence don't matter
Calaban says
14 years ago
evidence but on whether or not the claim/message agrees with what they already believe or want to believe. divergent data is ignored or
Daningo says
14 years ago
Well, you may be going that direction
Calaban says
14 years ago
misinterpreted to support the person's original position. true of the left and the right.
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