....motherfucker the hell you on about

moffat...

This showed up on my Tumblr dashboard and everyone is deliberating over a missed regeneration or someone gave the Doctor extra regens or something.

Nope

I figured it out.

do tell.

The first doctor didn't come into being via regeneration. His regen into the second doctor was the first one.

.........

There's one more after twelve.

There's also the Valeyard, which has to exist at some point.

son of a fuck.

i thought the valeyard was more of a manifested I AM A SHADOW THE TRUE SELF deal but then again i am embarrassingly weak on my classic knowledge

Yeah, it has nothing to do with the story or gaining extra regens or one didn't count or any of that. It's just simple math.

honestly i never would have considered that

a+

It's like when everyone thought the new millennium started in 2000 when it actually started in 2001 because there is no year 0.

My family was sitting around New Years 2000 and everyone was going "OMFG NEW MILLENNIUM HOW COOL Y2K SKDFHSKf" and we were like '.... um... guys?"

As soon as I read "I think you should go back to your DVDs and count correctly this time" I went

THIS SHIT AGAIN

/tableflip

....gais

Jeezly.

Well, with wherever Hurt fits in, that makes Capaldi the 13th, so that would mean Capaldi has 0 regens left

So, they if they don't want to end the show when he's finished his run, they need to do something

I don't think 11 regenerated into Hurt.

Clara said she didn't see him in any of her previous interactions with the Doctor so he has to be a future Doctor. And 11 didn't regenerate into him, they were present at the same time.

But he one of the doctors regenerations, wherever he fits in the timeline

If anything I'd say that Hurt is the 13th Doctor who had to go back and commit time atrocities into order to do something for the Time War or something like that.

So yeah, it's possible that hurt is the final doctor

in order*, rather

Right, he comes after Capaldi.

But we do know that Capaldi is the official Twelfth Doctor and everyone thinks that this is his last regen. But Moffat did the math and told us to go recount too

Hurt could be the Valeyard, actually. It's supposed to be the regeneration between his 12 and 13th regens.

I don't know what the Valeyard is because my knowledge of Classic Who is sorely lacking.

Un mo.

The Valeyard

Ahhhhh, got it.

So Hurt could come after Capaldi but there'd still be one more Doctor after that, at least.

The only evidence we have that First never regenerated is only that he's had so many regenerations since we "first met".

It is the very definition of retcon.

tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Fi...

"The First Doctor was the first incarnation of the Time Lord who became known as the Doctor."

"He met his end after battling the Cybermen for the first time. He was forced to regenerate into his second body from exhaustion and a loss of strength to maintain his ancient body."

"The Doctor was born on Gallifrey"

According to all this, his regen into the second Doctor was indeed the first one.

that all he's getting at? I didn't think people thought Capaldi was the last one (unless Hurt fits in between McGann and Eccleston)

Also, Colin Baker never filmed a regeneration and therefore Six never regenerated and everyone since has been some other dude

Yup, people were convinced that Capaldi had to be the last one because 12th Doctor, 12 regenerations.

The only way he would technically be supposed to be the last one is if Hurt DOES fit in the middle of the sequence and isn't from the future

Though let's face it Capaldi was never going to ACTUALLY be the last one on account of the show makes too much money

Heh, right. Even if there's one more after Capaldi which would use up all twelve regens, they would figure out some way to continue the show.

They'd finagle it somehow.

I'm still counting on River having dumped some spares into him.

My money's on "That was a Time Lord rule and THEY AREN'T HERE NYAH NYAH!"

(grin) So long as they keep producing good stories, I'm all in favor of "all of the above, and several we haven't thought of yet."

yubsie: well, the "it's on a time lord rule" was what I assumed, but Moffat is explicitly saying he is only capable of regen 12 times.

First known incarnation and of course he was born on Gallifrey. But show me where no-previous-regens is explicitly stated in canon.

800-ish years and all of a sudden he starts dying at regular intervals? It doesn't make much sense. Kind of a story cheat, to my mind.

One was only a century or two, iirc

His age is kinda all over the place in general

But he'd stayed in that regeneration long enough to succumb to old age

Until he stole the TARDIS he probably wasn't getting into the sort of dangers that killed the later ones

he was definitely less than 800 because I remember 4 making comments about his age and I know it was less than 800

River gave him however-many she had left, and one was used to combat that poisoned lipstick. She had used at least two of hers, so that adds perhaps nine more to the Doctor's tally. Easy-peasy. (Bloody Moffat)

I'm not Whovian enough to know/remember age references, so thank you for the correction.

His age is always... questionable. He's made references to being over a thousand as Seven and Eight, but he was back down to 900 as Nine and Ten

One thing to keep in mind with age is that we don't know we're seeing all of what happens in any regen. What looks continuous to us is almost certainly a "clever edit."

"Rule number one."
"The Doctor lies."

Yes. Always wise to remember that one.