A bit clickbaity, but still.

yeah, he doesn't really say all that much apart from making fan theories seem more unlikely

Yeah, people thinking he's purposely there to take down Snoke etc

I mean, if Han's death was faked, why did Leia feel it?

exactly, it's not faked

I'd be more willing to believe that he got the lightsaber through the stomach and SOMEHOW managed to survive than kylo was a double agent

Leia's reaction could've been to him getting stabbed

True. Though it shows it after he's fallen. And she's so sad. :E

yeah :c

Squint

LOL that emote

seriously, if you only pretend to kill your father, you don't follow it up by pushing him into an abyss

yeah, I'd believe a theory of "Kylo's a double agent and Han knows about it and mutually planned for Han to die then and that way"

which is equally unlikely

personally, I suspect it's more Kylo's already fully turned from the second Jedi massacre but his draw to the light is much louder than Anakin's (probably due to still having a family to go home to)

and so he kills Han to silence it only for it to backfire

I... wouldn't be surprised if killing Han ends up playing a big role in Kylo ultimately turning back to the light

he killed han solo there's no redeeming him (in the eyes of the fans)

and yet his grandfather murdered little kids and yet ultimately found redemption

other SW fans, don't forget the history of this family...

Anakin killed his own father figure in the OT, all but murdered his wife in a fit of rage in the PT....

how does Kylo killing Han after almost almost leaving the First Order for him make him irredeemable?

I don't really see Darth Vader as redeemed either >.>

I mean, obviously he is to Luke?

Because it's what he wants desperately, right?

depends on what you mean by redeemed

personally, I don't believe anyone can redeem themself

someone else has to do that for you

changing, though

changing thought patterns, etc...

that's another matter

I believe he turned back to the light

but, obviously, we don't get to see him really show it beyond killing Palpatine which he probably would have ultimately done anyway

because Han solo is an iconic character

I did say 'in the eyes of the fans'

It's true!

as a fan I'm not so interested in seeing an redemption arc

my guess is that it will probably happen though

although maybe at the cost of his own life, like Vader

Yeah. I mean maybe for Leia's sake? IDK

Though I think it all depends, mebbe for Ben himself, even if right now I'm like no you don't get to come back from this.

plus, he's so annoying, the whiny emo goth brat.

So they think he's chilling with Luke still? c.c;

He's saying they told people that?

Not sure? I guess? Or let it be assumed

in bloodline wasn't he training with Luke?

so they were like everything is probs cool

I assume that's the reference but idk

it's all so sketchy XD

so much hinges on whether it's been 15 years or only six

I mean people could assume he's STILL with uncle, like he was before, they both just disappeared - they know there was a jedi killer and the students (who have to have family somewhere?!) were killed?

But they don't know it was Ben/Knights of Ren who did it?

lmfao the level of info we do not have is just

fuck it, headcanon forever

or until this trilogy is done

Yes why do they make us wait so long

when someone asked Pablo he said Bloodline fits in with the timeline established already by TFA?

So it's Bloodline that has to mesh with TFA rather than other way around

nnnnnnn....

idk I should watch again I guess, but

does not fit with the tone I initially picked up on

and I still don't really want to use Bloodline as canon until the movie proves it to me

Yeah, I mean I think he's implying first and foremost the movie provides the canon and what to go by

tie in stuff is great so long as it doesn't joss canon and this is enough of a toss up that i'm sticking to only what the movie tells me

and anything seemingly contradictory, turn to the films, not the books

except that no? it doesn't fit with the tfa timeline?

yep

Someone asked how Han knows that Ren is his son when he sees him with Rey and he wouldn't answer

Like how does he know wtf Kylo Ren looks like and that it's his kid. SO MANY THINGS.

lmfao

just said it's something that is yet to be revealed more or less

but yeah deadscorpy it doesn't ..fit so? ugh how great is this one canon designed to end all the confusion. XD

they really have a lot to deliver with these next films XD

I am so nervous

there's no way in TFA that it's only been 6 years since Kylo Ren turned

literally impossible

bc Rey's not a young teenager

and she was 8-10 at most in the flashback/vision

it's got to be a typo or something that someone failed to catch

I don't see how their ages relate, though

We have no confirmation on who she is so we can't use her as a litmus

it at least strongly implies she was left on Jakku at the same time as the massacre

plus I don't think Luke would go from Rebellion hero to supposedly fictional superhero in a mere 6 years

everything else in the vision was clearly around the same time so it should be safe to say that was, too

Well Leia doesn't even know where he's gone when she's pregnant with Ben? Obviously she must see him again at some point to give him Ben to train, and Bloodline implies they talk regularly over space Skype???

Bloodline is where the 'she was left at the time of the massacre' gets ruined as well.

Pablo said Rey is about 19-20, Ren is in his thirties

and if Bloodline is right, he's 20-something and the padawan killing hasn't happened and Ren's been on Jakku close to a decade.

Rey even

but if Rey wasn't left at the time of the massacre, what does it have to do with the rest of the vision?

from a writing POV, it makes no sense for that to be at all separate

well the things she sees in the vision aren't necessarily things she ever experienced

no

but as a writer, having everything except one being connected is generally poor writing

aside from getting left behind on Jakku. the corridor, the massacre, Luke programming R2 are not her memories.

so either it's 1) they all happened at the same time, 2) Rey was present for all of them but only remembers one of them for some reason, or 3) both

unless they decided to throw writing convention out of the window

oh, and 4) Anakin's lightsaber was present for all of them

granted, that's all implied via writing technique rather than explicit but still

Just saying, the wiki says TFA takes place 30 yrs after RotJ and Ben is born a year after Endor, which makes him 29 in TFA, so no, Pablo, he's not in his 30s whatchoo talking about.

Kind of makes me wonder how reliable he is as a source despite his official status

I need to watch Rey's vison again

yeah, Ben's 29-30, depending on when his birthday is

he's right around my age....

and making him older when he turns really ruins everything I'd loved about him from the movie

it takes him from giant, raging manchild for a reason to lock this guy up, drug him to the gills, and throw away the key

I guess all will be revealed.

we hope....

Also super belatedly, there was totally stuff in the book force vision that wasn't in the movie one >.>

Like a young boy crying, a guy's voice calling her 'Sweetheart' and promising to come back for her - but I guess that means it's not canon if it's not in the film/contradicts stuff?

I continue to be flabbergasted by Leia knowing about Snoke preying on Ben from the beginning in the book and NEVER telling Han about it at all.

and that's just not a thing in the movie

Yeeeeah

I don't like that :E

I mean, I can sort of see her logic a little? But Han had a right to know what was going on.

I really, really hope they give us clarity on exactly how it all happened. I feel like she wouldn't have kept it from him, especially if he's showing how much interest he has in his kid from the start.

according to life-debt anyway

and is this canon or not? Not that it actually matters much as far as RP goes I guess?

I guess no

Like he's all the force his rubbish still at this stage? So she thinks she can't tell him that some darkside stuff is happening to their kid?

I think personally, Snoke will end up being some sort of physical presence/being in Ben's youth, not a voice in his head like most seem to think.

okay, I can shrug at discrepancies between Bloodline and the movie, where the author wasn't given all the details, but a significant difference between the novelization and the film?

there are a few major ones, like also Rey deciding straight up she was gonna sell out BB8 I think speaks very differently of her just being offered the portions and turning them down

but yeah, that is a major thing that she knew? Now we don't really know

lol it's almost like the novelization was written first and JJ had a checklist where he vetoed certain things

Yes

Oh and Kylo Ren saying 'It is you!' of Rey -.-

That ...seems pretty major thing to be like lol remove

and Rey and Leia at the end, a bunch more dialogue

although Leia knowing Snoke was preying on Ben from wee little could also be her connecting the dots after the fact

I find it hard to believe that, whether she told Han or not, she'd just... not do anything about Snoke messing with Ben if she knew at the time

I also wouldn't be surprised if Snoke was an actual physical presence in their lives and also hanging out in Ben's head, whispering things behind his parents' backs

yeah true!

she's too much of a fighter to not do anything about someone messing with her son unless she's unaware at the time

too much like her father to ignore that

Either way I feel like Leia knew him as a person, whoever he was - but not as a threat

/proceeds to enjoy the irony of the Skywalker twin who hates Anakin the most being the most likely

agreed

like maybe there was a slightly off feeling but nothing she would have really been able to pin point

oh yeah she is 100% like dad

and so it got forgotten until suddenly Supreme Leader

and Luke's 100% like mom

aren't movie novelizations generally based on early versions of scripts?

That's what I thought, the shooting script before things are edited later etc

yeah, because it takes time to whip out a novelization and have it edited/in a publishable state to line up with movie release

iirc RotJ had some .... interesting discrepancies between movie and different book versions too but it's been 84 years since I read it

honestly if anything the novelization made me appreciate how much they cleaned it up. Kylo talking in the novels was 50 shades of cringeworthy lmfao

Kylo thinking in the novel sounded like a poet turned Sith...

a hot topic poet lmfao

he's hilariously purple prosey ... that conversation with poe l m a o

I feel like I didn't pay attention to this XD

and I need to go back XD

omfg hold on

I'm pretty sure that back in the day when the first few SW came out that the films preceded the books, like it was only after the movie was a success that there was any market for the novelization.

for instance, in ANH, the whole Kessel parsecs thing was rephrased to make actual sense. XD

oooh interesting

ah, wookieepedia says TFA's release was the first time a SW movie novelization was released after the film

or at the same time, excuse me. ANH was released 5 months prior to the movie.

well, George Lucas wrote the screenplay for ANH first, the novelization was based on that, not the other way around, whichever was released first

right

who came up with that dialogue for Kylo?!

it's like he's trying to practice political speeches on Poe

and I'm pretty sure that's not how gratuitous is meant to be used

unless he's trying to say Poe's restraints were just for the heck of it while he was in the room?

I know his mom was a politician but I haven't heard even a politician talk like that....

that's not ridiculously poetic and it's faaaar beyond purple

and it doesn't fit his voice later on...

good old alan dean foster

I don't remember his other stuff being that ridiculous

most of it isn't awful, it's kylo in general -- idk if it's how he was meant to be in earlier versions or if alan just really went whole hog with the pretentious hot topic emo kid thing or what

see, my thing is... that dialogue is pretentious but not the kind of pretentious that goes with hot topic emo kid

now, Kylo pondering on space?

that was a thing of beauty

Note to self- don't respond to things when tired, considering I actually knew that the novelization of ANH had a publication date of 1976 and apparently forgot all about that, sorry

no worries I had to wiki it, I was only just looking to see whether it was based on the released film version or prior drafts/screenplays

I'm curious about the writing process of SW books in general, and how much is just writer elaboration in the novelizations and how much is 'it was like this last year when they gave me the script' is part

Yeah agreed

it's like, in ANH there probably weren't too many changes from screenplay to film, where Lucas wrote/directed both. The screenplay is probably published, I should look for it, out of curiosity,

although it's not as though the novelization is too different in that case.

it's mostly little things, though Jabba as a biped is an interesting thing

with TFA screenplay, although JJ has a writing credit, it seems like Lawrence Kasdan is the main writer? So, maybe easier to see how there might be more changes during the filming process.

(PS I'm 5000% glad about Larry Kasdan still being right up in there)

I'd be super interested in TFA's process in particular, especially due to the massive shift in how movies and their tie-in stuff is done

double especially due to the state-secret levels of secrecy surrounding it

the added scene in ANH with Jabba--wasn't that originally filmed with a man?

I don't know :|a

Jabba at Tatooine - Original Cut

OMFG

that's wonderful

and definitely adds credence to the 'based on earlier version of the script' idea

dammit,not I wanna see a SW character with a Scottish accent

ugly laughs over the top of poor denis lawson