[Exalted] heyooooooooooo anyone play Exalted?
Sidereal Sans: Discuss
Chosen of Secrets: Also discuss
Yes, absolutely, Sans is a Sidereal. Like, I'm not even sure I mean that he would be a Sidereal if they were Exalted, I mean he may just actually, literally be a Sidereal who got very lost somehow.
a Sidereal exaltation went completely against the 'you must be this human to Exalt' rules because he fits it that hecking well
I mean gestures at Arcane Fate
A Sidereal Exaltation went missing between the worlds somehow and wound up in the Underground, and Yu-Shan never figured out where it went because they kept looking for humans.
*look at it(
I mean, he's even associated with stars already.
hhhhh good point
And his battle could be the inspiration for a good few Siddy charms
KARMA definitely seems like the sort of thing applied to a fate-string
Someone on the Onyx Path forums actually wrote up A Bad Time: The Martial Arts Style. It's beautiful.
Search 'Osseous Hour Of Misfortune Style'.
Oh man I saw that it was a thing of wonder
And so on point, as was that pic someone posted to a thread of that line of executioners with the caption of 'murder is punishable by death' or similar
Personally, I think they missed a good pun opportunity by not calling it Grave Hour of Misfortune Style, but other than that.
ffffffffffffffF that would have been perfect
Yes, that comic is so very much part of my Sans characterization, God.
Golden Blossoms of Determination style was also excellent
I wish there was a Frisk/Chara style too - someone started making 'Pursuit of Peace' but never finished it, and I tried making Red Fang style before realising crunch was not my strong suit.
I wish there was a Frisk/Chara style too - someone started making 'Pursuit of Peace' but never finished it, and I tried making Red Fang style before realising crunch was not my strong suit.
Also, I might've liked a Voice Of The Law minor verbal mental influence charm in there somewhere based on his dropping the font moments, but that might've been gilding the lily a bit.
Honestly sometimes the lily needs a little tasteful gilding
Maybe chained into the style's play on intimacies? I need to reread it.
HO HO HOLY SHIT DID YOU SAY ONYX PATH
YOU TOO?? 
I don't know much about Exalted specifically but I know, vaguely what you guys are talking about!
Yes!!!! I can't contribute anything meaningful, but just know I am sending my thumbs up from the distance!
o7
Something along the lines of... it's not outright compulsion, but you get a very strong sense of this person is... correct? Has the right to say what they're saying? Like the charm that makes anything sound like a lie, except instead it makes whatever you say sound like you have the rightful authority to say it.
When you use this charm, you are the Judge, and your voice is your badge.
(They are appreciated and I hope to entertain.) Not necessarily legal authority, more the feeling that They Are The Law.
Judge Dredd would also use this style, probably.
I imagine it might be popular in Autocthonia.
As a twist, I like the idea that the Voice Of The Law charm can only work if you're saying something that is actually true.
Then again... SMA...
(Also, it seems like the kind of style that would be based off of/invented because of the Usurpation or the things that led up to it.)
Or at least, that the user is aware to the best of their ability to be true.
Yeah it's a very yellow/dark blue style. Rigidly holding people accountable, a feeling the Sids probably were experiencing around that time.
Yeah it's a very yellow/dark blue style. Rigidly holding people accountable, a feeling the Sids probably were experiencing around that time.
Like, if you try to say something false with it unknowingly, the charm just kind of fizzles out, if you deliberately lie you choke on the words and can't get them out.
Subjective truths work, though.
Huh, that could give it interesting use as a lie detector charm.
I feel like making it so that it's subjective truth removes this little loophole.
I feel like making it so that it's subjective truth removes this little loophole.
We already have Judge's Ear/
Not to mention, certain players could use it to prove facts of the setting without any other basis, annoying the ST.
That's what Lore is for.
(And then elder Sids notice younger martial artists trying to hold them accountable for their actions and suddenly it gets a lot less popular/socially acceptable.)
Yeah, maybe just stick to 'you can't deliberately lie'.
(hahaha yep. I love the implication that the practicioner of this art will eventually fall prey to their student
kind of making it an interesting parallel to Black Claw)
kind of making it an interesting parallel to Black Claw)
(it's all fun and games until you realise nobody is exempt)
(Yesss, and them doing it on purpose, too. Black Claw sees the student-master betrayal as cruel but inevitable, something they'd like to avoid but can't. Grave Hour sees it as a sad but necessary duty that must be dealt with as they uphold all their responsibilities.)
(By the time someone who genuinely believes in this style's ideals decides they don't need successor to keep them from falling from their ideals, that's usually the point at which they're starting to go off the rails.)
(You are The Law. But corrupt laws must be ended, and you are not the exception.)
(Whoever designed this Style in-universe was very forward-thinking. As befits a Sid, really)
(I have ideas about an in-universe Elder Sidereal Sans.)
And I also love that the Style has a deliberate flaw in that it doesn't ping on people who ordered atrocities, only those that carried them out. You can be responsible for mass murder but if your hands are personally clean it won't pick up on them.
It's not a perfect tool.
It's not a perfect tool.
(loud grabby hands gimme)
Kind of ridiculous Mary Sue territory, but the whole point of Exalted is that everyone with a speaking role is a bit of a Sue so it balances out.
(he seems like the kind of Sid to keep an eye on his brother's reincarnations and maybe give a nudge here and there)
Basically, say you've got this Chosen of Serenity. Nice boy, gentle and easygoing type, maybe a ghostblood but not inclined to angst about it much.
(and who got along... interestingly with Ketchup Carjack (who is a red soul if I ever saw one, to mix mechanics))
all i know about exalted is that gods choose humans like some sort of bad luck starter pokemon of truma
You are 100% correct.
some bad juju lads
anyway: go on ill be lurkin
((what did u say chara was again tho lint??))
((They strike me as the most Lunar Lunar to ever Lunar
hence 'Red Fang Style'))
hence 'Red Fang Style'))
((how loony)
((You can play either Asriel or Frisk as their Solar match - Asriel works better since there's the Abyssal thing, maybe, but there's so many possibilities.))
Anyway, sorry to interrupt, go on Echo
He gets Exalted definitely not before the Primordial War starts, but probably at least a little before it finishes. I'd guess around the tail end, just enough to see a little fighting but not enough to be around in the worst of it. Possibly during The Time Of Cascading Years when there was all that mess with time, but it's hard to say for obvious reasons.
Perhaps that's when the equivalent to the Gaster stuff happened?
(Saying anything happened during The Time Of Cascading Years is both technically possible and completely impossible to prove. Except that it technically never happened anyway.)
In any case, he's younger than most of his ostensible peers so he's not one of the big movers and shakers by any means, but he's experienced enough that they don't feel the need to keep an eye on him, so he's pretty much free to do as he pleases. Since he's always been the humble type anyway, he mostly just wanders around.
Learning new things and helping people here and there.
So he's not really... around when things start to go bad.
[That Community gif of coming in with pizza] I'm guessing
Yup. Likely off in the hinterlands some where, only periodically in touch with people (which, for a Sidereal, isn't a terrible way to dodge their version of the Great Curse), and by the time he gets back, things are going downhill fast.
So he starts trying to help people, like a Serenity Caste should. Gentle advice, encouragement, just quietly trying to make things a little better... but he's one Exalt up against the giant overblown tidal wave of atrocity that was the last days of the Solar Deliberative, and frankly he didn't exactly make it this far without his own issues.
(It's just less noticeable, because most of them were more self-direction. When you're next to the guy who's acting out by having every third child of every other household executed, your clinical depression isn't that easy to spot.)
So he keeps trying to help, things keep getting worse, and eventually one day it hits the point where the Solar he's trying to guide and advise just goes too goddamn far.
I like to think it was something to do with the Neverborn.
Oooh, the Black Nadir Concordat?
(Worse.) But in any case, they decide on something so likely to do unspeakable permanent damage, something so much worse than the usual background horrors that he just can't bring himself to stand by and let them...
At it's even worse because this Solar is so young.
Barely more than a child, really. And that's the point where the despair really hits, because if even their children are so corrupted now, if they've already twisted the next generation beyond hope of redemption before they've even really had a chance to start, how can things ever be fixed?
Does this set the precedent/inspiration for the Usurpation, or occur around the same time?
And he looks at the world... calmly. More calmly and coldly than he has in a while, and quietly comes to the decision that sometimes, justice by the sword is the only kind left. There is a point where all gentle options fail, and the diseased limb must simply be cut off.
(I'd say it occurs somewhat before the Usurpation, but it gets lost in the shuffle enough afterward that it's not really considered a precedent for any of it.)
So he remembers all he's ever learned, walks into the golden hallway of the Solar's palace, and waits.
When the Solar arrives, he gives them a simple choice: turn back or walk forward. Because he will not allow them to walk through that hall into their throne room, and give the order for this atrocity. They can still stop now. They can turn around and walk away, take a different path. But if they go forward... then he will stop them. However he has to.
What follows is one of the most skilled duels of the entire era, or it would be if it also weren't disqualified from any formal duel system ever created by virtue of it being ninety percent desperately dirty cheating.
In that single fight, that pure moment of utter conviction in his duty and all-encompassing desire to do justice, he hits a level he's never reached before in his life. He'd always been the relaxed one, calm and gentle, but this is the untouchable calm of a dead man walking, entirely shorn of anything but the need to finish this one task.
The fight is a work of beauty. It is the ugliest thing he's ever done.
He wins.
And, before he moves on and risks that understanding fading from his mind, he sits down in the golden hallway next to the Solar's cooling body and takes that one perfect fight, that single unending moment of absolute clarity of purpose, and forges the heart of it into a martial art.
If we're smacking red soul reincarnation into this, is the Solar wearing a poncho?
Or is this Frisk's predecessor?
Or is this Frisk's predecessor?
holy fuck
(Could be First Age Chara, or Frisk, or both. Frisk may be Chara's latest incarnation.) He refines it later, developing and perfecting it, but the core of it was, and remains, in a golden hallway.
Does he ever return there?
I think... not in this life. But past that, who knows? He sequesters himself to finish it, presents it to his peers, and... retreats again. He might have been punished for his actions eventually, but shortly thereafter came the meeting where the Vision of Bronze was decided upon, and his work became a single drop in an ocean, forgotten.
(If there's that long of a timegap between Chara and Frisk, assuming Frisk exalts in the Age of Sorrow, did he put the Exaltation in the Jade Prison?)
(Did the Usurpation happen independently shortly after?)
(Did the Usurpation happen independently shortly after?)
Was/is he a Bronze Faction member?
(Although depending on which path you choose ingame, he seems more Gold - trying to usher you to a better path vs 'dead where you stand')
I don't think he participates in the Usurpation- though nor does he attempt to stop it. I think he sees things very... differently, now. Or maybe exactly the same, but without any willingness to pretend.
If asked, he'd tell you that people have the right to choose redemption, but also must face the consequences of their own actions. If those consequences are not survivable... that, too, is a choice.
(Sometimes, all your choices are bad ones.)
(I think he touched something more than just personal conviction, in that fight, breaking through to... enlightenment, but not a very kind one.)
(and he brought something back with him)
The other Sidereals don't really try to force him into things. Something about the way he looks at them these days is... uncomfortable. (He used to be so gentle. What does he see so clearly?)
(The newer ones are like 'he can't be a Serenity maybe he's Endings or smth' but there's more than one kind of serenity)
(Not a cruel enlightenment, either. A just one- but entirely just, as little room for mercy as for corruption.)
(He has no illusions that he, alone, deserved this. He's well aware that there were many others who suffered worse, or longer, or more nobly. He was simply the one who suffered in exactly the right way, at the precise moment in time.)
For all that he unsettles people these days- or perhaps because he does, God knows the Exalted have never seen something strange and dangerous and decided to leave it alone- some are drawn to him. He's polite, if not terribly enthusiastic, and agrees to take students without much protest.
(Does he warn them what they're getting into?)
Where does Papyrus fit into this?
(He does, with full and brutal honesty. Children, fools, and heroes never listen, and young Exalted are generally all three.)
(Frick tho, I think if they weren't possibly enemies, Chara would want to learn this style.)
(Even with, especially with, the warnings.)
(It would heavily appeal to their sense of justice.)
(If they'd wanted to learn, he would have taught them. Unfortunately, any situation in which they've seen enough to know he's the one they should ask is one in which they're unlikely to want to ask him anything.)
(Yyyyyyeeeep.)
As for his students... suppose, after weeding out the obviously unsuitable or insufficiently dedicated ones, he has a handful of students. Some learn well, some fail and leave, but one is... odd. He always attends every lesson, always listens, never late or disruptive. But he also never learns.
Not in the sense of trying and failing- he simply never attempts to perform the martial art at all.
(Okay, if I had to pin the invention of Pursuit of Peace on someone...)
He isn't inclined to worry about anything so harmless, so he doesn't try to push the student into anything. He has work to do, and students to train. He helps improve some of the world- but not enough help everyone. His students improve- but not enough for any of them to ever, quite, defeat him. Things move on, as they do.
But after this has been going on for some time, long enough for all the other students to learn and leave or fail and depart, he finally becomes curious enough to ask: "Tell me, do you want to become a Judge?"
"No."
"Then why do you keep coming to the lessons?" "I'm not. I come here to talk to you."
"You are certainly very skilled, but you seem... sad. I have never seen you stop smiling, or act troubled, but somehow I do not think I have ever seen you be happy. I don't want to learn how to fight you, I want to learn how to help you."
Since that hallway, everything had been clear and... cold. Like a perfect sheet of ice.
This was the first moment since then that anything had felt warm.
(A hundred and twenty-eight posts full of melodrama just to get to the point where we meet Papyrus. Yup, this is definitely Exalted.)
(Honestly you should post this to the forums, this is fantastic.)
(After you're done though 
)
)
(Aw, thanks. I do think I have a bit more of this to go, and several other ideas about it I'd like to discuss- I think this might wind up being a long-running plurk. But I also think most of those should wait until tomorrow, once I've gotten some sleep, and I'll just try to finish up this tonight.)
(No worries o7)
(Also, I'd like to point out that the fact that it's been like two centuries since he first wandered into the Sidereal meeting smiling in an unnervingly calm way and still spattered with a bit of Solar blood, and yet only now is anyone finally asking him 'are you okay?')
(I thought the time between the Usurpation and the Age of Sorrows was longer than that. I mean, the Shogunate happened in between, and good ol CK is pushing 5000 even though we don't know when he Exalted.)
('What the Hell did you do', 'how did you do that', 'why did you do that', and '...can I do that' have all come up repeatedly, but it took over two hundred years for someone to think to ask 'are you all right'. This illustrates so much about what's wrong with the Exalted.)
(We're not into the Age of Sorrows yet, this is still fairly recent. But seriously, two hundred years and no one ever even fucking asked. Jesus Christ, people.)
(Shoot sorry. There Are No Exalted Therapists, apparently.)
He did not bother continuing to teach the student. The student remained, studying what he had wanted to learn in the first place. Hope, when you have learned to live without it, is a frightening thing. Cold is numbing until you come out of it, and it is tempting to remain.
Still, the student persisted.
One day, the student was challenged. A particularly arrogant young Exalt, possessing great skill but sadly far less virtue than might be hoped, had been bullying a servant, when the student had intervened. The young Exalt came bursting through the doors, threatening anyone with death should they try to hide the student or stop his fight.
Instead, the student came out unarmed and unfrightened, and spoke to him kindly. He spoke passionately of the need for kindness, how the young Exalt's path could be turned towards a better one, and when his opponent reached back to strike him he stepped forward to embrace.
The blow landed hard, with a powerful spell behind it.
The Judge, his teacher, had seen the fight begin from a distance, and it ended as he reached it. He swept up his student and brought him immediately to the healers... but the younger Exalt had been very talented indeed. There was nothing they could do to save him.
The Judge sat by his bedside for hours, trying to understand why, as his student drifted in and out of consciousness. Then he looked up at the entrance of a visitor, and saw the young Exalt approach.
He looked even more confused than the Judge- and what's more, ashamed, shock and guilt where his arrogance had been. He apologized humbly to the student and swore to help others, since it was now too late to help him.
Many lives would be better for this decision, including his own.
As he left, the student smiled... and, more honestly than he had in a long time, so did the Judge, in understanding at the lesson his greatest student had taught them:
Even their children were corrupted- and even the most corrupted of their children could change.
There was no saving the student in this life, but the Exalted do not so limit themselves. For the first time since the golden hallway, the Judge reached deeply, for the greatest skill of his art.
"If you were to do anything differently, my student, what would it be?"
"I would want to meet you earlier, so you wouldn't have been alone."
(fffffuck Avoidance Kata)
"Then next time, we'll start together."
And he reached out and caught the threads of fate in his left hand, and the departing souls in his right. He tied them so that these souls and his souls would be born again in the same configuration- but this time, to the same family, as brothers.
Then he reached out and forced the change on the cycles of fate, using the last of his strength and ending his life in the doing.
Though they call the Age they were reborn in the Age of Sorrows, the Judge and his brother are happy.
And they are not alone.
(...I am a fucking sap. You could import me from Canada and pour me on pancakes, that's how sappy that last bit got, what the Hell.)
(mmmmm tree blood)
So I'm assuming Sans has a higher level of Past Lives.
(We could maybe have had a happy ending without both of them having to die first if Papyrus had just used some fucking dodge charms, but unfortunately that boy is Compassion 5 and Dramatic Gestures 10.)
Yeeeah, deliberately setting up your own specific reincarnation and fucking with your soul to send it somewhere directly has a lot of weird side effects that way. Papyrus at least actually died first, so he just gets the occasional moment of deja vu but Sans always had some pretty weird dreams and once his Exaltation found him again he remembered a good...
I'd say third of his previous life.
low whistle that probably fucked him over good
(Frisk, in Keychain of Creation voice: DODGE CHARMS)
It's definitely really bad for his mental health, but it does have it's perks. There's still a lot of holes there, but he remembers way more than he should, so despite being not that old by Sidereal standards he's got a lot of tricks way above his apparent skill level.
Also, a surprising amount of blackmail material that's still useful on anyone actually still alive to be embarrassed by it.
"hey, catlick keystump, remember that time you got drunk enough to throw up on Jupiter? because I still remember that."
God tho, I wonder how those two would view each other.
Realistically speaking, they probably interact as little as possible.
Yyyyeah. Almost, but not quite, like looking in a mirror.
(brb walking doge)
Also, in the current Age, Chejop Kejak doesn't actually know Sans is around at all- at best he'd be vaguely aware of that rather odd young Chosen of Serenity hanging around sometimes, but he's mostly just doing stuff like trying to help the mortals develop better healing techniques and other peaceful things like that, so it's not worth his time.
Man's got enough on his plate as he is, he's not going to take the time to figure out who that kid he saw for like twenty seconds reminds him of, not unless he actually starts causing trouble. And Sans is perfectly happy not to draw himself and his baby brother to his attention, thanks, that didn't work out great for either of them last time around.
This doesn't mean Sans won't occasionally cause trouble, just not the kind that involves ever getting caught if he can help it.
Back in the First Age, up until he got all Enlightenment Through Harsh Justice, Sans was about as much of a nonentity as a decent Exalt can be- he was a gentle, sweet-natured scholarly type who'd done well enough in the brief part of the war he'd been in to be considered competent but not so well that he stood out, and then wandered around learning things.
In retrospect, the simple fact of him being so... bland and nice probably should have been a hint that Fate or whatever had something important in mind for him later down the road. Exalted are outliers by definition, they aren't usually that innocuous for that long unless they're gearing up for something big, as per Bridget.
Aaand anything else on this- and I do have more- can wait eight hours. Night, guys.
(back!)
Awww. Night Echo! Have a good slep.
It was a good slep, thank you.
rubs hands together What you got today
Okay, so, I thought of something horrible. You know how you mentioned Grave Hour of Misfortune Style's whole mentor-student issue mirroring Black Claw Style? Imagine someone who learned both of them.
no D :
fuck no
the damage someone like that could do
It could just go... so unbelievably badly, so quick.
It's like 'corrupt justice system', the martial art.
those two would synegise with each other horribly
...Fuck, it'd be like Claude Frollo mixed with Desus.
horribly in the sense that they'd do it well, but with a result nobody is happy with
Yeah hoh boy.
That sort of thing might even be why the failsafe in Grave Hour itself
That sort of thing might even be why the failsafe in Grave Hour itself
Well aware that martial arts have philosophies, and that some should not come into contact with it
Yeah, 'I can do no wrong' + 'I am the Law' is such a scary combination. Like, unless you had someone incredibly morally upright it'd go bad fast- and why would someone like that learn Black Claw in the first place?
(I mean, I can think of reasons, but it's a stretch.)
Yyyyep. I think if the first Sans had an idea a prospective student knew it, they'd be turned away right quick
(Black Claw also strikes me as a darker mirror of what Pursuit of Peace could be)
(Black Claw wants to look like Pursuit of Peace's ideal, while actually being... awful. Black Claw is one of my favorite styles, it's so brilliantly horrible.) Come to think of it, I think you could make a case for the style's flaw of not seeing who ordered deaths as opposed to who carried them out also being kind of a safeguard there.
It limits any sane Judge to just dealing with direct, practical consequences, facts they can see and prove. Murkier things like causation or conflict on massive scales, they've got to actually investigate, form their own opinion without relying on what the style gives them, so it makes them think before they act, keeps them humble.
It certainly decreases it's applicability, and also power. And means that people manipulated by the artist to do that wouldn't ping.
An insane Judge, unfortunately, wouldn't be stopped like that, which is what their followers are for.
nods Feature instead of bug.
Yeah the moment a Judge starts leaning on the Style too much, using it as a gospel rather than a tool, is a sign they're starting to go bad.
Like, given that almost the entire point of the style is to stop people who think their power gives them the right to be above consequences, I think First Age Sans would probably be smart enough to figure out that 'a perfect unquestionable judge' is not a good thing for people to actually be, or think they are.
An ideal to strive for, always out of reach, but not something you should ever truly think you've attained.
And something you should be suspicious of in anyone claiming it.
...you know, it just occurred to me that the whole method of 'younger Exalts have the duty to execute older Exalts who look like they're going bad' is actually also a pretty decent way to limit the Great Curse.
It's a sad, brutal, and imperfect method, but given that it was implemented by someone who had no idea the Great Curse was actually a thing, it's a surprisingly good accidental makeshift safeguard.
Like, what's the most likely thing to make a powerful Exalt really cross the line? The Great Curse. What would the kind of behavior in the First Age that Grave Hour of Misfortune was invented to combat likely be partially caused by? The Great Curse. What affects Exalts more as they get older and more powerful? The Great Curse.
Holy shit, you're right.
Damn there's so many layers to this.
Someone noticed a trend, it seems
I'm just shaking my head at them having got there by accident.
The best solution for an underlying problem nobody knows exists.
They noticed enough of the symptoms to work on those and still never even figured out there was a cause.
Man tho I'm really curious how Sans and Papyrus tie into other things. What are your picks for other character's exaltations?
Honestly, I waffle back and forth a lot on what I'd pick for any given character- even Elder Sidereal Sans was mostly just in the specific context of 'who invented this style if it's a thing'. I do definitely see him as Sidereal, but there's a lot of leeway on caste. I went with Serenity because it fits and I really liked how it worked with this.
But I could definitely also see him as Secrets or Endings, or maybe Journeys at a stretch. Battles you'd have to really convince me, it's not what I'd go with.
Honestly I thought secrets but your case for Serenity has really cemented it for me
(and yeah hmm, which is what Exalt really depends on the role that's being played on)
(bbl)
Aw, thanks. Yeah, he's sort of in that area of 'Serenity can be terrifying depending on where you find it'.
I mean, he fits it in other ways too- he's a big proponent of 'good food, good friends, bad laughs', he seems fairly fond of the physical pleasures of life in general, and also seems to genuinely like people and making them happy. But there's also serenity in the sense of making your peace with your duty, however grim.
(Also, I'm assuming that stands for 'be back later', so I'll wait.)
A very existentialist view of Serenity.
(You don't have to wait - I can always catch up. Just sort of letting you know I won't be replying for a bit.)
It's good tho because it does go against a lot of the Serenity stereotype, which I am for with bells on.
Nah, it's fine. As much as I like the opportunity to infodump, it's nice to actually have a conversation about things too.
I think the Serenity stereotype is just bad fandom Sans anyway.
asdfghjkl oh my god you're right
the mysterious sex god
The mystery of bad fandom Sans is finally solved: he has the same name as someone's ghostblooded bluesid OC and people just got confused.
One thing about Serenity I found interesting is that one of it's tenets is marriage. And that's, like, actual literal marriage, but also bringing people together and bonds between people in general.
What kind of Sid charm allows ectoweeners?
Or would that come from his ghost side?
Literally any of them, with sufficient creativity. The Exalted do not acknowledge your petty mortal limitations on what can or cannot be a cock.
Glorious Solar Cock, a wonderful charm
Don't even try to tell me that hasn't been done in the First Age at least once, come on. Compared to the mountainfucking incident, which may I remind you actually canonically happened, golden ectodick is frankly underwhelming.
Downright vanilla, even.
Bad OC Sans probably gets a lot of use out of Life Without Compunction. Actually probably so does Actual Sid Sans.
In any case, given his 'Sans knows everyone' thing, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if he occasionally played matchmaker or introduced people to new friends.
Makes sense. He kind of tries that in canon between Frisk and his brother, with varying success depending on timeline.
He's a networker.
So yeah, I default to him as Chosen of Serenity. Just going down the list for fun, I'd put Endings as next most likely- he tells you when you need to QUIT, is the one who calls you in the Neutral Ends to summarize the results of the game, KR seems to be closer to purple than any other magical color, and he wants to stop the world ending before its time.
Serenity, Endings, Secrets, Journeys, Battles, in order of applicability
Yeah, exactly. I could see Secrets- just flat-out "Sans never tells anyone anything", and God knows he's keeping a lot of cards close to his chest. Journeys, you maybe- he does guide you a little on your journey through the Underground, teleportation could be considered swift travel, he can do the yellow eyeglow, and he's implied to be from far away.
Then again, secrecy is often a Sid Thing in general.
And ooooh nice one.
And ooooh nice one.
Battles is dead last in likelihood, but looking at it from the angle of 'if I was trying to convince someone, how would I try to pull it off'...
(It's kind of the contrast to Serenity, so you could play off that)
I think I'd go for him being a 'how is he a Chosen of Battles' in the same way that Iron Siaka gets a lot of 'how is she a Chosen of Serenity'.
Not all battles are bloody and obvious- he's been fighting an unending war, no less brutal for being quiet, for a span of time so vast it cannot even be known. And since the world has not yet been destroyed by Flowey, he's been winning that war the entire time.
Not without cost, terrible cost, but he's still holding on.
Not to mention just the sheer fact that, in a fight, he has an incredible grasp of tactics.
Which isn't evidence in and of itself, but can be tied in
Yeah. So, he doesn't fit the typical 'warrior, solider, strategist' stereotype of a Chosen of Battles, but if a cold war qualifies you could make a solid case for it.
Pfft, literally, given he lives in snowdin
(It occurs to me you could equate each area of the underground with one of the Elemental Poles
Depending on how you interpret it, either the Ruins or New Home could be wood/earth, but Air, Water and Fire are obvs.)
Depending on how you interpret it, either the Ruins or New Home could be wood/earth, but Air, Water and Fire are obvs.)
Ultimately, given what little we know of his goals and desires, I'd go with Chosen of Serenity, just one who had enough sense to pay close attention to the other castes' methods and ideals, picking up little bits and pieces that seemed useful.
XD becoming the U l t i m a t e Sidereral
*real
in the process.
He's a sneaky, thieving little shit, is what he is.
Honestly, stereotypes aside, I suspect most sidereals do pick up a little from their peers if they're not completely flat characters.
Suspiciously high larceny.
Honestly I've joked with people before that Sans is basically someone from the Noir genre who wandered into Undertale.
Honestly I've joked with people before that Sans is basically someone from the Noir genre who wandered into Undertale.
See, I would've said his genre was cosmic horror.
Yeah, there's 100 of them and they all work together to varying degrees. Makes sense there'd be a lot of trick exchanging going on, and you can end up learning stuff your past life knew from someone they taught it to.
Tbf, the two genres share a lot of tropes, esp the investigative aspect.
You're not wrong, on either count. I actually have a little fragment of something I was playing with for a noir-ish Undertale AU, but I don't want to get into it here because it's the kind of thing I could probably derail myself for a while talking about, and I so rarely get to go into my Exalted ideas that I don't want to drop them right now.
(Huh, I have a fragment myself, we could compare notes. But later.)
Gimme the Exalted ideas
Aww, thanks. In any case, on the subject of my flipflopping about where each character fits, I can at least say that Sans is definitely Sidereal to me, in the same way that I think you'd have to really push it to have Mettaton as anything other than an Alchemical.
Let's look at the options, here: Solar is way too proactive to fit him, they act where he reacts. I could see a player trying to make a Night Caste based off of him for fun, but if we're trying to actually translate the character it just doesn't work.
Lunar, he is pretty damn good at surviving, even against long odds, but shapeshifting and disguise aren't his usual MO and he's not the type to reject society much either.
(Mettaton is so Alchemical it hurts. Probably an illegal kind where the soulgem wasn't scrubbed before implantation. The ability to create souls would def interest a more aware Eight Kingdoms.)
Dragonblooded, he doesn't seem to have any particular attachment to any family than Papyrus- or have any biological family besides Papyrus, period. Nor is he very class-conscious, and he's not overtly associated with a particular element, although you could make a very tenuous case for water/ice.
Infernal, he's suffered and struggled against some pretty devastating failures and he does come from a people sealed away after losing a war against humanity, but ultimately he just doesn't fit the aesthetic. He's not trying to get vengeance on the people who pushed him down or set himself up as more powerful, he just wants the world to survive.
(Frick tho, that does make me shelve away Infernal Frisk with Coadjutor Chara)
Liminal, Getimian, Exigent... honestly I just don't know enough about any of those to say. Exigents I think can theoretically cover anything, but it's vague enough that it doesn't ping much. Liminal and Getimian, maybe if I knew more on the subject I'd see them as fitting, but even if they fit as well as Sidereal could, I wouldn't think they'd be better.
Liminal... well he is a skeleton, and has a background of science, but it would need some work.
And anyone can be an exigent, but you'd have to cast Gaster as his patron.
As for Getimians... all we know is they have their own personal looms of fate. This kind of seems more like Sans's antagonists rather than him.
And anyone can be an exigent, but you'd have to cast Gaster as his patron.
As for Getimians... all we know is they have their own personal looms of fate. This kind of seems more like Sans's antagonists rather than him.
Which again fits the whole 'Sids vs. Getimian' idea
So, again, Sans is definitely a Sidereal.
You'll notice I deliberately left out Abyssals, by the way.
That's because I've seen people argue that Sans and Papyrus would have to be Abyssals, because they're skeletons, and it's just...
Noooo. 
This opinion is so wrong, it kind of warps back around to being right, in a way?
Like, they don't fit personality-wise. At all.
They're lords of the death and I find it hard to see Sans as lord of anything
Lord of science puns, maybe.
Lord of science puns, maybe.
Papyrus would never knowingly agree to end the world, and Sans' main goal in canon is actively trying to prevent that from happening.
Then again, because he doesn't fit, he could make a hilarious Abyssal.
And definitely a rogue one.
But yeah, Papyrus wouldn't be.
They're very attached to a shitload of things that would gain them resonance, their deaths keep getting erased from time so they never happened, they just aren't malevolent people...
What would Papyrus be?
But I actually want to see it.
Damn, me too now.
Not because Sans and Papyrus make sense at all as Abyssals, but because they don't.
They're the Iron Siaka of Abyssals
Just so you can have people looking at them, and asking the Neverborn "How? How do you fuck up this bad?"
Like, imagine trying to create your terrifying and coldhearted deathknights... and you somehow manage to come up with Sans and Papyrus.
Neverborn: write and indicate the remains of the Deathlord that said these would totally be the ones, no really guys
This is one of the biggest fuckups in the history of Creation, and it would be hilarious.
Sans would definitely find it amusing, I think.
Like, Papyrus would deliberately have an insanely high Whispers score because he'd keep going in to talk to the Neverborn and try to befriend them. He may actually be starting to wear them down.
I mean, the entire reason they want the world to end is they want themselves to end, and also spite.
I think if anyone could get through to them and help them, without destroying the world, it would be Papyrus\
I think if anyone could get through to them and help them, without destroying the world, it would be Papyrus\
Sans is incredibly lazy on every job they try to send him on and so nonthreatening even being a literal skeleton can't compensate... except whenever they try to push him.
Deathlords: Why aren't you terrifying, be terrifying. ...Holy shit, no, not at us, at other people, why are you like this.
Man, he probably knows all the tricks to cheating Resonance
Oooh, maybe he channels it into his voice whenever he drops the font.
fuck yes
Also I can see him pulling Resonance Ben shenanigans when he needs it.
He charges up by annoying his brother until the yells of "SANS! STOP PLAGUING MY UNLIFE WITH INCIDENTAL MUSIC!" echo across the underworld. Honestly, the main problem with having Papyrus as an Abyssal (aside from 'how the fuck did that happen in the first place') is 'how would you manage to keep him as an Abyssal'.
He'd be the fastest Abyssal-to-Solar redemption on record.
Possibly playing on the flaw he does have - a need for other's approval that can get out of hand.
Otherwise... yyyyep.
Even canonically, though, he ultimately backs you against Undyne. And she's a lot more aligned with his own goals and morals than the Neverborn are.
...I'm now picturing an Abyssal with an ultimate goal of Heal And Redeem The Neverborn, who qualified for and politely refused a Solar redemption because they still had work to do down there.
Like, even aside from Papyrus, that's an interesting thought.
The Neverborn are so confused.
And of course even leaving aside the 'every moment I live is agony' thing, they are pretty angry about the war
Healing is one thing, pursuading a primordial not to rampage Yu Shan is another.
One of my old character ideas actually was an Abyssal who genuinely felt bad for the Neverborn and wanted to find a way for them to die properly and let their pain go without having to end the world in the process. I kind of want to take another try at that idea now...
Although... maybe they'd be free but still confined to the Underworld
Do iiiii.
*it
She was like... the loyalist that confused the shit out of other loyalists, and also renegades and literally everyone else.
Like, absolutely hated the thought of taking a life, worked overtime to fix anything she encountered kindly and peacefully, was consistently nice to everyone she met and yet was genuinely very deeply devoted to the Neverborn on a personal level.
Her logic was sort of something like 'yes, I understand that they've said they want to end the world, but people in horrible pain don't make rational decisions very well. Therefore, I've decided to temporarily ignore their expressed wishes and try to end their pain some other way, and then once that's done I can ask them what they want again.'
'Just because you want someone to be happy doesn't mean you do everything they say. Sometimes love means doing what's best for people, whether they want you to or not.'
I love it so much.
What was her name?
I never actually came up with one, either from before or after her Exaltation. I do remember wanting her to have an Endings Caste girlfriend, though.
Headcanon: it has the word Mercy in it somewhere
And oooh yeah Endings would go well with that.
They began as a surprisingly cordial professional relationship and things developed from there. It's nice to have someone who just gets you. I'm not sure it's feasible, but I like the idea of her backstory being that she was ghostblooded and actually got brought up in the underworld. Like, maybe her mother got pregnant and was banished back before birth?
That's an interesting concept, because usually you see it that the father was the ghost.
Her Abyssal name probably should have something to do with the concept of mercy-killing, you're right. The trouble with Abyssal names is that you have to pick something that acknowledges your character was renamed by epically bitter cosmic edgelords, while simultaneously making sure you could say it during an RP session without bursting out laughing.
Having it not be so long that you pass out from oxygen deprivation mid-introduction, Keychain of Creation style, is also a nice bonus.
The Final Mercy sounds like something they might name her, only for them to be a bit 'no wait'
You know the rules: if it couldn't be the title of a goth music album, it can't be the name of an Abyssal.
...And the fact that I have trash tastes is once again confirmed by the fact that, on further consideration, I probably would actually buy an album called The Maiden Of The Mirthless Smile.
Once there was a maiden...
Also: The Dreemurrs as Dragon-blooded, y/n?
Plausible, but I also have complicated thoughts about them as First Circle Demons.
I'm liking the way you're thinking.
Go on.
Because if I'm translating Undertale as a whole instead of going character by character, the parallels between the monster-human war and the Primordial War are too big for me to ignore.
(Or, for your consideration: fae)
Hhh yeah that whole cycle of betrayal because of what could be done.
(Considered but rejected on the grounds of I don't know Exalted-style fae well enough to work with.) I'm thinking, maybe the Underground was a Primordial, one that didn't wind up recruited to the Exalted's side like Gaia and Autochthon, but was still very notably more gentle and sympathetic to humanity before and even during the War.
So they weren't trusted enough to be spared, exactly, but the Exalted were willing to acknowledge their past kindnesses towards humanity by sealing them away separately from the rest of the Yozi, in a way that allowed for the possibility of eventual release, albeit only under very particular circumstances.
They were still badly damaged, just to make sure they couldn't try anything, but overall the Underground came out of the war far more stable and less mutilated than any other Primordial.
hhhhh
if Chara was a Solar...
if Chara was a Solar...
Ah, you've spotted it already.
(I'd wonder if the Underground was some kind of Ishvara/Primordial mix bc... one part for each Grace and the journey is a tale.)
Yes, the Underground didn't get damaged during the War. Their fetich soul, The Hypernal Prince, was killed after it.
Friiiiick, and the new fetich, The Best Nightmare or somesuchlike is very bitter
this also explains the change in th epopulation's attitude
Yeah, I haven't worked out exactly what kind of shit went down with young First Age Solar Chara that screwed up the Underground so badly, but whatever it was is pretty devastating.
I like the idea of Frisk being the new host of Chara's Exaltation, with a very high past lives score, and Chara's actual ghost having become a Deathlord.
Incidentally, to work around the issue of demons not qualifying for Exaltations when so many monster characters could make good Exalts, I think part of the kinder surrender terms the Underground got was being allowed to take a population of humans who genuinely wanted to live there with them.
that awkward moment when one piece of your soul meets another piece
hmm, that would mean the majority is probs dragonblood, if exaltations can't get in (but exalts can)
They interbred with the demons living there so much that the two populations are no longer distinguishable, so any given monster/lower circle demon of the Underground could theoretically have enough human ancestry to be allowed to Exalt, even if it's highly unlikely for them to get the chance.
That way, if I want to still have Sidereal Sans, I can do that without having him not be a monster.
Yes perfect
Yu Shan is probably going nuts
So, I think the Underground's First Circle souls would be Toriel, Asgore, Gaster, The Annoying Dog, Gerson, and the Riverperson.
Asriel was the fetich soul, he died during whatever The Chara Incident was, and came back as Flowey. I like the idea that maybe Alphys was experimenting with necromancy to try and bring him back, failed, but managed to draw Deathlord!Chara's attention to him and the Underground.
Asgore's not on that list?
wait he is derp
reading comp fail
Ooooh.
Could eventually result in a dramatic climax of Frisk in full past life flashback mode confronting Abyssal Chara and reminding them of the person they used to be before they got so caught up in their own suffering, convincing them to turn their back on the other Deathlords and try to help them.
Also, I still don't know what I want to name the merciful Abyssal and now I have 'angel of mercy serial killers' in my search history. This is unfortunate.
It's possible but... I kind of see Deathlord Chara being a little superfluous to requirements
Genocide Chara being Past Lives going from 3 to 5 or irresponsible use of persona charms to avoid responsibility feels more likely to me.
Genocide Chara being Past Lives going from 3 to 5 or irresponsible use of persona charms to avoid responsibility feels more likely to me.
I know, it's really unnecessary, I just love the idea of The Littlest Edgelord having to sit on a highchair at Deathlord meetings and making fun of The First And Forsaken Lion.
And isn't gratuitous narrative self-indulgence what Exalted is really about, deep down?
You make an excellent point.
I can be a bit too staid in my transfers
We talk a good game about 'epic heroes, in the style of the old classics' but the heart of the matter is 'I can be as over-the-top and ridiculous as I want and it still makes sense. My character rides two dinosaurs welded to a third, larger dinosaur and I don't care.'
Speaking of dinosaurs - Dragon King Alphys y/n?
You're right, though, your way does have way more common sense and actual narrative structure, and would probably be way better for actually writing a crossover fic instead of just shouting excitedly.
Also yes on Dragon King Alphys.
Just... yes.
I need to lern2shout apparently.
XD DK Alphys is just one of those 'she can't be anything else' things like Sans or Mettaton
It's not just the whole 'being a lizard' thing, it's the sense of legacy she has around her and the Dragon King's brand of science
Also, I'm now having that thing where my ideas keep fractally splitting into more ideas, and I'm now going to have to specify whether I'm talking about something in the one where Sans invented Grave Hour Of Misfortune Style, the one where the Underground is a Primordial and I'm translating the entire story of Undertale...
or the one where I'm translating each individual character into what fits best for them while ignoring the whole.
Help.
There's so many potential different crossovers here, depending on what you focus on
(Which speaks to how well Undertale is written)
I love the idea of little vignettes for each
That's not even getting into joke ideas, like Sans and Papyrus being The Worst Abyssals.
(Not worst as in most evil, worst as in bad at it.)
I had a crack idea where Sans and Papyrus are the result of the bonepuppet plague, but also actually nice
I... actually don't know what that is. Details?
Hang on lemme fetch a thing. 3E made a big deal of it.
You could tell it was some writer's pet idea
Thanks, I mostly have access to bits and pieces because I can't afford to buy stuff.
"Puppeteer’s Plague (Virulence 4, Morbidity 3, Interval: One week): Born from the accursed meat of cattle fed on human flesh and made infamous as a weapon of war by the Mask of Winters, puppeteer’s plague slowly seeps through the marrow of its victims, bringing their bones to accursed unlife within the bodies of their stillliving hosts."
"The bones of an infected victim die, taking on an evil existence of their own as a skeletal creature still clothed in their host’s living flesh. Soon the skeleton begins to move, dragging the body along with it to commit mayhem—a struggle the host inevitably loses, as "
muscles tire but the bones do not. Insanity born from atrocity and the endless maddening itch of unliving bones is a blessing; it spares the victim from full awareness of the disease’s final stage, when the skeleton tears free from its husk of meat to continue its wicked work."
" They feed on fear and pain, horror and madness—cravings they satiate by stalking, torturing and slowly slaying helpless mortals."
To which I was like "that
's kinda cool but
what if the bone entity was just. a person.
imagine the body horror.
Welp, that's unspeakably horrifying, thanks.
Where does it say they have to be malevolent? What? I can't hear you. Horrific backstory it is.
Yeah sorry whoops I should probably have warned
Possibly being trapped inside a terrified person usually drives them just as insane as the person is said to go? So they're easier for the Mask of Winters to control, but if you had a couple where the original person died almost immediately after the bones were animated they'd be stable and together enough to slip the leash and run off?
That's what I'm thinking happened, yeah. Someone died in a fire at the right, well, wrong time.
And yeah it's not funtimes for either entity.
And yeah it's not funtimes for either entity.
(Possibly, given what the game says bonesiders are like, this was not an accident.)
(Two skeletons trying to make, well, a living, in Sijan or dystopic Thorns.)
Host might've decided they'd rather set the house on fire right away than go through the whole thing?
While they briefly still could, I mean.
nodsSomeone thought it would be enough. Either them or someone else.
And their also-infected sibling was still in there with them.
And yeah, that makes sense
Hhhh good lord there's no way that wouldn't have hurt.
I'm assuming the game doesn't specify, since it's just considering them to be mindless undead minions, but what if they absorb some of the host's memories?
fuck yes
I mean, they apparently can think and reason which means without actually growing up there's some kind of thing going on there
I mean, they apparently can think and reason which means without actually growing up there's some kind of thing going on there
They only know two things for sure - that they're brothers, and they're going to look out for each other
Do they have the host's memories of dying, and thinking they'd rather be dead than live through that? Well it means more emotional pain, so I'm going to say yes.
ow
in a sense, then, they did live through it
in another sense, their parents killed themselves
Identity issues are fun.
mmhm
man tho, I love how careful they've got to be given bonesiders are an 'attack on sight' for most people
and are also vectors, if they wound, so they gotta be careful of that too
Also, consider: this is the first time the skeletal minion has wound up free of the host early enough to stay fully sane without whatever it was being enough to put the bones down too, so they're an entirely new kind of creature/situation... and it turns out a free-willed undead being has really interesting metaphysical effects on necromantic magic.
hooo boy
well, it can do things to ghosts iirc, which are already free-willed.
probably a good reason for these two to avoid necromancers (or for one to learn it on the side)
well, it can do things to ghosts iirc, which are already free-willed.
probably a good reason for these two to avoid necromancers (or for one to learn it on the side)
What did you have in mind?
Say The Mask of Winters can't control them- the spell relies on him getting in early, before they become beings in their own right, and he's missed his window. It's why the whole thing has to work the way it does. They're still vulnerable to unnatural mental influence the same way any non-Exalt would be, but they aren't controllable like ghosts.
The usefulness of fully corporeal undead minions is offset by having to condition them in exactly the right way to gain full control over them, explaining why no one else tried it before the Mask of Winters did.
Ooooo and he wouldn't like that
Esp if he's unsure of how it happened
His bonesider armies might be a liability
And him not being able to control two measly little skeletons, not even as powerful as a ghost-blooded human? Well, sure he'd like to have them killed for the embarrassment of it, not to mention making sure they don't set a precedent, but they're not a threat, right?
Wrong.
Man, what category do they even fall under? They're too physical to be spirits, they're not human or animal... might as well put them under Creation's Misc. drawer - behemoth.
Because there's one other little quirk that's popped up from their unique situation. The plague works by spreading the Mask of Winters' own necromantic power to others. When they slipped out of his control, they awakened their essence. Awakened essence... Which is not the essence of the Mask of Winters...
Which can still travel through the plague vector
They aren't vectors for the plague, they're a walking cure.
fwwwwwuh
what if their version can send the plague dormant until the person's death, whereupon the skeleton awakens
the person's bones might still feel a bit weird throughout their life, but not maddeningly so
what if their version can send the plague dormant until the person's death, whereupon the skeleton awakens
the person's bones might still feel a bit weird throughout their life, but not maddeningly so
Their essence isn't powerful enough to outright turn someone on its own, not without an Abyssal's power behind it, but it can kind of occupy the same space that his power would need to. So it blocks the plague from activating.
I'd go with- they send the plague dormant, if the person can manage to flush it out of their body somehow before dying they're just done with it completely and will have an immunity to it in the future, if not then it doesn't kick in until their death, like you said.
yesssss perfect
If it spreads the same way bonesiders usually spread the plague, then they have to injure people for it to work pfft
So, kids, how dead does the Mask of Winters want our little bony friends? So fucking dead.
SO. FUCKING. DEAD.
Pay no attention to the people in these hoods. What? The skulls? They're masks. Probably
Soooo dead.
Honestly Sans probably has not-heart attacks on the regular, because while Papyrus isn't stupid, if he can help...
I'd say they had their... deeply traumatic birth somewhere on the fringes of the same region as Thorns, wandered around for a little bit figuring out what they could about themselves, figured out they could cure people and that their Horrible Abyssal Granddad wouldn't happy about it, and fucking booked it out of the place as quickly as they could manage.
And they've been spreading the counter-plague behind them deliberately, too. Partially because Papyrus insists on helping people, partially because they're hoping the added chaos of those people being cured and potentially managing to cure others in turn will slow down any pursuit.
I just realised, this can mean if the Mask executes living dissidents there's a chance this'll leave a pissed off skeleton now
And those skeletons can probs do the same thing
And have reason to do it deliberately.
Fun times, right?
So yeah, the Skeleton Brothers are probably very much in hiding.
Their magic is probably a part of being this new type of entity right?
They may well wind up trying to head somewhere icy just so their 'head-to-covering of everything with multiple layers take no chances' dress style doesn't cause as much comment.
*head-to-toe
That makes a lot of sense. And the cold probably doesn't really bother them.
Yeah, I think they'd have wound up with awakened essence as soon as they pushed through to having full free will. Like, they gained thought and then understanding in that single instant.
So they can definitely do sorcery, and I'm assuming they'd probably have a natural affinity for necromancy as well.
hhhh I'm tempted to try stat them stop me I know nothing of crunch
yeah definitely a bonus to necromancy with that necrotic essence
I know even less about crunch than you do, I guarantee you. I'm not in a position to stop you here.
what would their... hhh I forget the turn but 'starter pack' spell be? The one that tends to have an effect on the sorceror that learns it, because it's their first one
Sans's eye?
*term
I wonder if their necromancy would be less damaging to the fabric of the world than the usual kind? They were born from death, but technically the entities that they are in their own right have never died, so they have a right to be here in the living world and aren't... transgressing, maybe, is the word I'm looking for?
They're neither dead nor alive, so they fall into this weird space where a lot of things meant for one side or the other just don't know how to deal with them.
Shadowlands get trippy.
They're like... the exact metaphysical opposite of ghostbloods.
...holy shit you're right
maybe it cancels out and you'd get a very odd human
actually would baby bones be possible
congrats Mask O' Winters, you've made a new species
The Unconquered Sun, looking at canceled-out ghostblood-skeleton kid: Well, this... isn't a creature of darkness. Somehow. Luna, do you know what the fuck is going on here? Because I'm very confused.
Luna, leaning over with a bubblegum bubble: I wonder if I can exalt one
That was actually going to be where I went next- since they've developed free will, they probably have souls and a soul structure now, right?
And they did come from humans, and you can have exalted beastmen or godbloods, right?
Well, it depends because like
Gods and such have free will, but they don't actually have souls
Gods and such have free will, but they don't actually have souls
Demons and devas are souls
But none of them came directly from a human in any capacity.
That's true : D
Beastmen or various kinds of godbloods do, and they can Exalt, so...
I think what I'm saying here is that, even in this AU, Sans is still a Sidereal.
Definitely Endings caste this time, though. Anything else would just be absurd, clearly.
"Okay so who's been fucking with the loom of fate again? Own up"
Honestly the Maidens probably set this up
Saturn just looks down at this mess like "...I want that one."
Saturn in particular made charms usable against the undead before the Underworld even existed apparently, so she's def that kind of forward thinker
"Dibs. Venus, have you considered his brother?" "Well, I am now."
And so it was
And this begins the chapter of being massive fish out of waters in Yu Shan
I mean... it's sort of an improvement from being on the run from a Deathlord and trying not to get hunted down by a mob with torches and pitchforks whenever they got exposed?
Also, I like the idea of Saturn just wordlessly walking up to the brothers, hugging them for a moment, and then turning around and leaving. Just... they've had a rough time, but they made it where they're supposed to be. She's proud of them.
She skipped out on the GoD for this
I'm pretty sure it would be the first time in their entire unlives that they'd had physical contact with someone besides each other that didn't involve horrified screaming and attempts at murder. They needed this.
hhhhh why do you hurt me this way
Look, when else would they have had literally any kind of positive interaction with someone? I mean, maybe while they were in disguise people wouldn't have been freaking out, but they would have had to stay as closed-off and distant as they could to avoid getting caught. Those boys needed a damn hug, and the Maiden of Endings provided.
The state of them being unhugged needed to end.
Damn right.
Therefore, she ended it. As she does. Really, it makes perfect logical sense.
Well, she didn't have to do it personally : 3c
Yes she fucking did.
heheheheeh
(also doing tags, so responses may be slow)
No problem.
Honestly, aside from 'they receive Sidereal training and go on to comprehensively fuck up the Mask of Winters' everything' I can't think of anything to this.
Nah, it seems pretty tidied away as an AU
I think I'd like to get back to Grave Hour Of Misfortune Style, I was liking that and I want to see if we can get more out of it.
I'm doing some thinking about the kind of person you'd expect in this style. I figure it'd obviously work very well for Sidereals, especially Secrets and Endings. Alchemicals would have probably liked it, but it was invented after Autochthon skipped town, so probably none of them have gotten a chance to learn it.
No worries. I want to hear more of it.
I can see realm magistrates liking it
Given their job is basically 'wandering judge'
Given their job is basically 'wandering judge'
That would mean terrestrials or mortals can learn it, or a version of it
Surprisingly few Solars- despite being Lawgivers, they tend not to mesh well with a philosophy that also holds them accountable to the Law, instead of merely providing it. Those that do actually manage it can go far, though. Even fewer Infernals and Abyssals, for obvious reasons.
In fact, I'm not sure any of them have yet, though it might prove to be unexpectedly well-suited to an Abyssal attempting genuine redemption.
(I like the idea that, being a Sidereal martial art, there are large chunks of it only Sidereals can use, and the bulk of it is still mostly just reachable by Solaroids and Lunars, but there are some bits Terrestrials and Enlightened Mortals can learn... and one charm, one single very obscure charm... that can be used by anyone.)
(Hoo boy, deets, deets)
(Any thinking, feeling being who can find someone to teach them that charm can use it. It's a very minor but persistent effect called Dead Man's Warning. If the target of the charm has killed someone, and the user of the charm knows this for a fact, it marks the target with a faint aura of wrongness.)
(It's not a brand on their forehead or a glowing sign in the air, just this vague but unmistakable impression that something isn't quite right about this person, that they feel unsafe and untrustworthy. The effect can be removed, if you know how, or overcome with other kinds of mental influence, but it is still a persistent little trick.)
It's not a charm that will save your life or win you power... but a mortal villager of no real strength, who knows no magic other than that one charm, can give the Dead Man's Warning to the Exalted raider that cuts her down and burns her village, and look him in the eye as she dies knowing that eventually someone will see it, and his crime will be judged.
(Justice is for everyone, from the lowest to the highest. And everyone has the right to call out for it.)
God yes I love it
And it suits the genocide player quite well
The abilities a practitioner of Grave Hour already has to see if you've killed someone may make it, ironically, entirely redundant for them, but the point is that it also reveals their crime to everyone else, so people will hear about it and a Judge will eventually find out.
I have the sneaking suspicion that this charm, more than any other, is the reason why Grave Hour is very unpopular and disapproved of these days.
There's that forethought striking again
Like, it's never been banned, exactly, but it's something they really don't encourage. They liked the sound of justice for everyone, but balked at the point of "no, I mean everyone".
"everyone. even the people you think don't matter, even the people who decided who mattered in the first place. everyone."
You use this chain knowing it'll be your noose
There's always the option to not use it, but once you've seen the number, you can't unsee it
And if you're going to truly uphold the style's ideals, then you have to face justice someday, too. (Once again, we get back to the whole 'yes your student will kill you someday, this is a feature not a bug' point. Probably another reason why it's not that popular- people usually like their execution to be an option, not a distant certainty.)
(Technically, even the style's creator got killed by one of his students, just... indirectly.)
(Pffft holy shit)
Question: Does Papyrus end up being responsible for the Pursuit of Peace style? (Or at least provide a framework).
I like the idea of him having invented it, but I don't know if he would have had time to do so before dying- given that one good hit was enough to take him down, I've been assuming he was either a really new Exalt or not even an Exalt and just a very promisingly talented Half-Caste strong enough to be allowed to learn from a Sidereal teacher.
(I especially like the latter idea, because it means I have the option to give him an entirely new Exaltation in the Age of Sorrows, if he wasn't a Sidereal back in the First Age.)
(I think he could make a really interesting Solar.)
So I'm gonna say he was looking into a similar idea, and whoever invented Pursuit of Peace Style wound up using the story of his death and his writings/research to achieve it, but he didn't invent it himself.
(Seriously, though: ever since once again becoming a Sidereal gave Sans a whole bunch of memories from what their souls were up to last time around, he's had a list of Things I Am Not Telling Papyrus Probably Ever. Right at the top of the list is 'last time he died, I committed suicide to go after him'. This is not something he can know.)
Oooh I like that idea.
(these undertales and their suicide pacts settle down already)
Speaking of reincarnation, by the way, there is one other person who Sans might have used the reincarnation-affecting charms on: the Solar who he killed at the start of all this. After all, while I said he hadn't ever used the height of his abilities since the fight, he may have had to use them during it.
So if that Solar was Frisk and/or Chara's First Age incarnation, I get the feeling there's going to be enough of a lingering connection that they'll be running into each other again at some point.
Ooooh now that idea I like
Some kind of tying of fates together
Sort of a Stellar Bond
Maybe things can go a little better for them this time.
(Or worse
Finish what they started.)
Finish what they started.)
(How about better, then worse, and then better again because they're Exalted and it has to be dramatic?)
Also, thinking about it, I think Grave Hour might be one of the few styles that's used well by both Sidereals and Lunars.
Oh, Lunars def have a lot of retribution they're willing to give.
More... The former for the whole 'devotion to your duty' ideal, the latter for the idea of 'we are miles away from any civilization and no one else will ever have a chance to find out this crime has occurred. If I don't bring justice here, no one will'.
(yesss, us pattern spiders love some drama)
That too, but I'm mainly going off 3e Lunars, which apparently have as a theme a profound sense of being wronged.
They may reject society's laws, but they understand the need for The Law, justice for those who suffer.
So a knack for Grave Hour is something they have in common, but unfortunately they're probably too busy using it against each other to find common ground there.
yyyyyyyyeah
I do also think that the hypothetical Black Claw/Grave Hour user would be a Lunar.
Black Claw isn't 'what I want' so much as 'love is a lie and a weapon'.
It deals in percieved justice, and in a sense rubs in GH's face that what seems just often isn't at all
Black Claw isn't 'what I want' so much as 'love is a lie and a weapon'.
It deals in percieved justice, and in a sense rubs in GH's face that what seems just often isn't at all
There's that dark synergy there.
I wonder of some of Grave Hour's charms for revealing sins would be a good counter to some of Black Claw's tricks, too... by the way, do you have that text from the beginning of the Black Claw Style writeup? I want to take a look at it, the bit that goes "Lies are inescapable, betrayal is inescapable, etc."
I don't have the 2e version, but would you like the 3e one?
I kind of want to see the exact language used so I can write a sort of... counterpoint version, for the Grave Hour point of view. If it's the same text at the top it should be fine, I don't need the charms themselves.
"Eight wisdoms lie at the heart of the Black Claw style: Love is a lie, innocence is a lie, blame is a lie—lies are inescapable; children betray their parents, gods betray their makers, students betray their teachers—betrayal, too, is inescapable. Those who are truly wise are always first to strike, and strike to kill. "
from the text for the capstone charm.
Yes, that was the bit I was looking for, thank you. I'll write the thing in the morning, it's like one fifteen here and I'm so tired I think I'm starting to go crosseyed.
(the Determination kids could learn this Style far too easily, I think)
XD No worries.
I'll be looking forward to iiii.
I'll be looking forward to iiii.
*it
I do feel BC's true counter would be PoP - but GH can def act against it. Just as it can also kind of feed into it's themes.
I'm thinking something along the lines of "Justice must be done, to kill is unjust, an execution is a killing. A judge has a duty, to turn from duty is unjust, execution is a duty. Injustice must face its consequences, to escape the consequences is unjust, a judge must be judged in turn. Do not begin your duty unless you also accept where it will end."
A bit rough, but it sums up the theme I was going for, I think.
I wanted to mirror the structure of the two to better illustrate the divide of 'Black Claw says your student will kill you, Grave Hour says your student should kill you.'
Like, I know we've gone over that a lot already, I just wanted the specific phrasing.
No, no, it's good, and you're spot on.
: D and I love that mirrored phrasing
Black Claw is also a style that believes justice is fundamentally a lie, that it is only something perceived and perceptions can be changed, which runs up into Grave Hours very precise definition of justice.
Thanks. I also think the divide with the student-teacher thing is that Black Claw considers it a betrayal, something that goes against what is right, while Grave Hour considers it... almost a kindness? You're not betraying then, they've betrayed themselves and you're upholding their ideals for them since they've fallen too far to know better.
These aren't mutually exclusive, and the intimacy of love a Black Claw has for their sifu would def muddy a Grave Hour changeover, depending on what they learned first
It could also be part of the motivation- 'I know this is what you would have wanted, if you were in your right mind' they're doing it because they love them, and they don't want them to become something they would have loathed.
Black Claw doesn't consider betrayal wrong or right, but inevitable.
Yeah, exactly! : D
But I don't think Grave Hour considers it a kindness, exactly. It's ugly and it's messy and it's necessary. It's a crime, by it's own metric, not something to be celebrated or softened. It must be faced; you're ending someone's life.
The kind of self-justification of that kindness thing I think runs up against GH's utililarian ideal.
It must be done.
Also true. I suspect a deep part of Grave Hour's philosophy is that sometimes there are no good choices, so you pick the least evil option and try to limit the damage as much as you can. I slightly disagree on Black Claw- I feel like it considers betrayal to be natural, a fundamental part of the world, but it also considers the world to be evil.
Like, it considers the world to be fundamentally broken, so betrayal is a natural thing but not necessarily a good thing. However, it can't be avoided,
That's true. Evil and painful. It's a very cynical style - very 'abuse, the style'.
Hmm, good point.
I guess what I'm saying is it's BC's 'natural, but bad' vs GH's 'necessary, but bad'.
Absolutely that. It really makes sense when you consider that it was developed by a demon loyal to the Yozis- just look at the mantra above. Innocence and blame are lies, so those can't be put on the Primordials to justify going to war against them, but betrayal is not only real but inescapable, so the Yozis have a valid grievance against their enemies
It's classic abuser justification 'the bad things I did to you weren't real and you're making it up, but all of my pain is real and valid, and also occurred for reasons that were totally out of my control and can't be considered my fault'.
Yyyyyyyep. It's a very well done style in it's horrifyingly accurate capturing of this.
And again, there's a split of 'evil is inescapable in this world, so you might as well be evil' vs. 'evil is inescapable in this world, but you should strive against it anyway'.
Like, a true practitioner of Grave Hour has as their greatest hope to be the last practitioner of Grave Hour, that someday the only evil thing left in the world will be them, and they can end themselves. Every student they take is an acknowledgment of failure, that one way or another they will not complete their duty within their lifetime.
nods
one day there will be a world where nobody kills or is killed
one day there will be a world where nobody kills or is killed
Yeah. Note that I'm using 'evil' here to mean 'unforgivable crimes'- Grave Hour, unless you're doing it very wrong, isn't concerned with theft or vandalism, it's meant for crimes that have gone so far beyond the pale that there is no longer the possibility of a peaceful resolution, a morally unimpeachable response.
Like, there's a theme of law in the style, but law in the sense of a moral code, not necessarily in the sense of something decreed by society. Law must necessarily be subordinate to justice, or it's invalid.
I think it's not that Grave Hour of Misfortune Style doesn't acknowledge the existence of forgivable crimes, offenses that can be stopped peacefully, it's that they're outside the style's jurisdiction. It's not what a Judge is for.
It makes me think that Pursuit of Peace could also be a natural counter to this style- not just in the obvious sense of not being able to judge a pacifist, since they've presumably never killed, but also in the sense of stopping a Judge by showing them that whoever they were planning to execute isn't beyond redemption, and thus is not rightfully theirs.
nods "Do you think that anyone can be a good person, if they just try?" and both answer the question just a little differently
Yuuup. Also, it's... I have the sneaking suspicion that if you've got a style with a philosophy that implies your life ultimately doesn't matter, you're going to get a lot of practitioners who kind of had issues to begin with. So Pursuit of Peace is also a counter in the sense of 'how do you stop a broken man? Heal the man.'
There's this idea at the heart of the style that you can do these things because you are now beyond saving. Your actions are not acceptable, but it's better for someone who's already tainted to corrupt themselves further than for an innocent to be stained. Showing a Judge that they are also redeemable takes away that justification.
And leads to interesting conundrums
(I mean, PoP isn't a perfect style, and probably also has an undercurrent of 'you're less important')
(I mean, PoP isn't a perfect style, and probably also has an undercurrent of 'you're less important')
(Which would not compound well)
Yeah... I like the idea that when a Judge takes on a new student, it's traditional for their new teacher to first apologize humbly to them, because they've failed to achieve their task on their own and are now putting the burden on another person's shoulders.
: D me too
There's this idea of "Your task is impossible. This is no excuse for failure." (Grave Hour would probably be a very bad choice for someone with scrupulosity issues.)
Welcome to Creation, here's your shovel, as it were.
Yep. It also wouldn't surprise me if it was discreetly encouraged for students to also learn at least one other kind of martial art- one that isn't likely to end badly like Black Claw or others might- so that they have an alternate method for resolving situations that aren't desperate enough to merit the use of Grave Hour.
nods It comes back again to GH's own tenet of 'GH should be a tool in a toolbox.' It's a hammer, but not everything is a nail.
Crane Style might be popular
Like, Grave Hour is for executing the Abyssal who's been slaughtering people to try and create a large shadowland. Your other style is for firmly but nonlethally dissuading the bandits who try to rob you while you're travelling to the Abyssal's location.
(hhhh I really wish we did have a solid PoP, because it's ideal for that)
On the side of 'interactions could be interesting', I wonder what someone who's other martial art was Throne Shadow Style might be like?
hhhhh judgement from the shadows
It's been a while, remind me of that style's themes? I know it's got a puppetry aspect.
Honestly, I know almost nothing about it, too. Just that I think it's got a whole 'power behind the throne' theme, achieving things while making no visible moves but instead having others look like they accomplished the goal. Although I could be misremembering.
I could see it, in an ideal situation, being a good ideological combination for a loyal spymaster type. Do the dirty work so no one else has to. It's definitely not as outright 'this is the worst idea' as someone having both Grave Hour and Black Claw, but you'd definitely want it to be someone with a really strong moral code.
Honestly I can definitely see Sans having it.
Remember that one person who had the theory that Sans was actually the Royal Fool for Asgore, and followed the tradition of using court jesters as spies?
(Unrelated: Muffet absolutely knows Charcoal March of Spiders)
ooooh
I like it, even if I think he's largely self-appointed in this capacity
It's not my go-to headcanon, but I like it. (Muffet is a godblood who's nonhuman parent was a Pattern Spider. She creeps people out even more than in canon.)
(yessssssssss)
What other styles might he have?
Violet Bier of Sorrows Style also holy fuck this is the Red Soul Style
Honestly, I don't know enough about the different styles to say. I can't really afford to buy the sourcebooks and I don't know anyone in real life to play it with, so all my knowledge and experience with Exalted comes from the bits and pieces I've scavenged off the Internet. I just talk a good game for someone who's ideas are mostly from the TV Tropes page.
'form weapons are sword, knife, and staff'
" tracing with their every movement crimson trails through the air"
" tracing with their every movement crimson trails through the air"
That's fair : D
I had a friend who cough sent me all of 2e illegally
You can learn a lot from the forums, I think
Joy In Adversity stance, or Frisk in a nutshell.
it hurts how accurate this is, considering
Joy In Adversity stance is so Pacifist timeline Frisk it's ridiculous. And yeah, most of my ideas that didn't come from wiki pages came from the Onyx Path forums. Just lurk until you look like you know what you're talking about, that's my motto.
tbf, as you lurk, you learn, so eventually you do know : D
(It's prerequisite also explains how they always have first turn)
Also, unrelated issue, but I've been wondering... if Mettaton is an Alchemical, what does that make Napstablook?
hhh that's a really good question
Like, since they didn't take a body with him I don't think they'd also be an Alchemical, and I don't think you get ghosts, Liminals, or Abyssals in Autochthonia.
I think they'd actually be mortal, in this framework
well, there's ghosts but they're all locked up
maybe something's up with their soulgem?
I know, but I want them to... y'know. Actually get to do stuff.
hey! mortals can do things too!
Yes, but they usually aren't allowed to. My idea for Mettaton is that he's an Alchemical who got tired of his duties without going rogue in the Voidtech kind of way, just the job dissatisfaction kind of way, so he found a portal out to Creation and escaped to live his own life. Maybe he brought Napstablook's soul gem with him?
Hmm, hmm. I'm wondering how to tie Alphys into it
That was also a recurring problem for me. In this version, maybe she didn't outright build his original body, but she rebuilt and upgraded it after he was damaged?
In the one where the Underground is a Primordial, I had it as her experimenting with old techniques left behind after Autochthon took off and essentially reinventing the wheel by independently creating an Alchemical without knowing about the others actually existing.
You know, that could still be true.
Dragon Kings were around when Autocthon was still around in Creation, and moreover remember their past lives.
Dragon Kings were around when Autocthon was still around in Creation, and moreover remember their past lives.
Combine that with, perhaps, Project Razor
Yeah, overall I'd say it's very workable.
On a related topic, I really wish there was more fic about Autochthon. I just like him.
It's hard to find Exalted fic in general, I've noticed.
Yeah, there's very little that doesn't boil down to 'crossover that I'm not going to finish' or 'my OCs are fucking'.
Speaking of crossovers, are you familiar with Fate/Zero at all?
Unfortunately not - there's someone called Gilgamesh in it, maybe? That's all I know
Ah, darn. See, I have some ideas I really like for fusing it with Exalted, but they do kind of rely on knowing a fair bit about the series, and I'm not going to try and make you watch two seasons of anime just so you can hear about my headcanons.
(It is on Netflix, though. And crunchyroll. Just saying.)
(The stars are not right, unfortunately.)
(but I, too, know the pain of trying to find a space in the venn diagram between Exalted and another fandom)
(Yeah, no worries, you do you. Want a brief summary of my favorite idea, if you don't mind spoilers?)
(No worries, go ahead!)
Okay, so, I was trying to figure out what my two favorite characters would be. There were a few different options, but I couldn't quite decide on what kind of Exalt I'd prefer. Then I started really looking at them, and...
One of them is an ambitious young mage with a strong envious streak. After the series, he grows up to be a very well-respected teacher of magic and a progressive if devious aristocrat, and steals another (dead) character's weapon/familiar, which is a semi-independent ball of mercury. The other is a legendary ancient hero whose ghost he summoned.
The hero's personality is very loud and bombastic, he loves conquest and worthy opponents, believes in making your own path in life, and is associated symbolically with a charging bull.
They're very devoted to each other, and have a lot of gay subtext.
Now, looking at in Exalted terms, who does this remind you of?
Solar-Lunar pair.
...Okay, I guess we think in different directions. Because looking at the things they're associated with and their respective personalities, my thought was "Oh. Well, no wonder I couldn't decide on which kind they were, they're not Exalts at all."
"They're just Szoreny and Isidoros."
....holy shit your're right
XD 'burr you're a better lawyer than me' 'echo you're better at thinking outside the box than me'
Either that, or Infernals with those Yozi as patrons
Aw, you. I'm pretty sure it's just that I've actually seen the characters in question, so I can picture it more clearly. Solar-Lunar pair was actually one of the first things I considered, and it worked but it just felt like there was something missing.
And my first instinct was to go with 'Isidoros and Szoreny stole a couple Infernal Exaltations and have their own pair of agents secretly working at cross purposes to the others', but I decided that them actually literally being the Primordials in question was funnier.
So, AU idea: Szoreny and Isidoros implement their secret plan to escape Malfeas and leave the other Yozis behind, it turns out to be 'leaving behind a large percentage of themselves in the manner of gnawing off a limb to escape a trap, and then reincarnating as humans'. Once this is achieved, they then cheerfully ditch the Reclaimation in favor of wandering.
Road-trip across Creation ensues.
: D yes perfect
there will be so much devestation
I like the idea that there's actually surprisingly little devastation. Or, more accurately, there is an absolute shitton of devastation, but it keeps happening specifically to people who blatantly had it coming and your average innocent peasant actually comes out of the whole thing completely fine.
Like, Reincarned!Isidoros decides to 'redecorate' Thorns because he doesn't like the look.
this is the roadtrip movie I wanna see
Also, they make out with each other a lot.
It's a fairly clever plan, actually. They leave their hollowed-out selves behind in Malfeas so everyone just thinks they've given up under the stress of imprisonment and gone dormant, meanwhile a pair of humans grow up quietly unnoticed by everyone until they hit adulthood and get their powers and memories back, and then they can do whatever they want.
(There are about fifty billion was this plan could go horribly wrong and backfire on them, but that's par for the course for Yozi plotting.)
when you think about it... that's kind of a pseudo exaltation
(Imagine TED finding out about it and deciding to give it a try)
Yeah, in a way. I like to think Szoreny saw one of those occasions when a god poured all of their remaining power into an Exigent and wound up dying, leaving a free and powerful Exalt behind, and got inspired by it.
(He can never know.)
(Too late.)
: D pfft suddenly getting all those memories must be a trip
There's also the fun of exploring what happens when a being with an incredibly distant, alien perspective on the world suddenly gets a genuine, personal understanding of what it's like to be a human. (Humans with millennia of memories and frankly ridiculous superpowers, but still.)
Yeah, remembering all those mortals you casually crushed running by them on your way to somewhere important feels pretty different now, huh?
Suddenly they start getting a little perspective on why the rebellion might have happened
Srnk
Jinx
Jinx
No worries. Given the amount of suffering and bitterness that built up over the years of being trapped in Malfeas, they probably wouldn't go right to 'oh shit we were wrong about everything the whole time let's go beg the Incarnae for forgiveness', but there'd definitely be a feeling of 'okay I can see where the Exalted were coming from now'.
They'd still be unhappy about the war, but they'd be willing to let their grudge go and move on. Which is honestly kind of a huge deal, since being literally unable to accept other peoples' points of view, their right to even have a point of view, and not having what they wanted is the source of most of the pain and suffering the Yozi cause and feel.
Potential awkwardness: Autocthon comes back
That was going to be my next thought: I think would also result in an awkward feeling of '...you know maybe we should apologize to Autochthon about some things'.
Like, it'd be harder to feel empathy for large groups of strangers who are all already long dead now anyway, there'd be more of a generalized feeling of guilt. But he was their brother.
And now they can finally see what drove him to this.
(Well, sort of their brother. Family-equivalent relations among cosmic principle beings are sort of subjective and open to interpretation, but it's close enough.)
Auty would be highly suspicious tbh, bc I think 'pretending to be nice and then not being' happened to him
But he's also got a ton of guilt
There'd probably be a lot of wariness on both sides- after all, not only are they guilty of a lot of horrible things in general and at him in particular, but he's also the guy who built the superweapons that did horrible things to them when they were at their prime and now here they are in these squishy little vulnerable things.
...Well, Szoreny would be very wary and nervous, anyway. Human reincarnation, this is still Isidoros we're talking about here.
pffft
He'd probably try to blurt out a brief apology, and then do the cosmic equivalent of slapping him on the back and suggesting they all go out for a drink.
honestly that may be just what's needed
(bbl, gonna bike)
Autochthon and Szoreny are briefly united in facepalming, the awkwardness is dispelled. Clearly, Isidoros is the best diplomat here.
He's so bad at diplomacy he wraps around to being great again
Szoreny is just staring at him like 'why am I in love with this man. why.'
(He knows exactly why.)
Still, past all the guilt, horrors, and sheer awkwardness, it's kind of nice to think of Autochthon actually getting a genuine apology out of another Primordial. Finally.
After all these millenia
and like
the fact that they came back as humans is... well, he likes humans
the fact that they came back as humans is... well, he likes humans
It also makes it easier to be less frightened, because while they're still very powerful they're now visibly less powerful than he is. So it'd make it easier to talk to them from a position of strength instead of going back to when he was the terrified guy they used to kick around.
And once they got past the initial guilt and fear, his interest in... uh, transhumanism may not be the exact word I'm looking for here but I can't think of a better one. He'd have so many questions.
So many
please don't take your sibs apart to see how they work, Auto
Fortunately, Szoreny being... Szoreny, he'll probably have been examining himself from every angle every chance he got, so there'll be a lot of anecdotal data to work with.
precise details on the slope of that ass
Meanwhile, Isidoros is just like 'I can still beat the shit out of things so I'm good'.
suplexes a boulder, just because he can
Emotions, hahahaha what emotions, The Black Boar That Twists The Skies will suplex anything into submission including the guilt and existential confusion that he totally isn't experiencing shut up.
hence the aggressive pretending everything's fine
EVERYTHING IS FINE. Everything is totally... fine. Just fine. Yep.
just drag a confused autocthon in a whirlwind of partying it;s fine
Well, he has a few millennia of definitely-not-confusing guilt to work throw, clearly getting his poor weird nerd brother drunk and/or laid is the way to solve this, yes?
autocthon, the Ultimate Introvert, is very uncomfortable
Szoreny probs isn't helping either
At this point, Szoreny has probably resigned himself to the oncoming disaster and is just trailing along behind them keeping up a running stream of sarcastic commentary.
the weird thing is it works
sort of
Somehow, it actually works out well? Probably via mutual sad drunken apologizing/emotional confession sessions. I'm not sure how Autochthon gets drunk in the first place, maybe he has a subroutine for that.