i'm

i'm mad i didn't watch all her good videos before she decided to be a huge jerk

mm

no

i'm not mad at lindsay

i'm mad that this video exists

i'm mad that she had to spend twenty minutes recounting some traumatic personal shit in order to justify one of the "receipts" that some of these dumb fuckers tried to cancel her for

i'm so

fuckinggggg sick of people being like "oh well if you joke about that, write about that, mention that at all, you're ONLY allowed to do it as a COPING MECHANISM for your own trauma, and you THEREFORE owe us an explanation and graphic description of that trauma"

i hate it so FUCKING much i'm so fucking angry

i've followed her content for years, i know she's a very private person, and the twenty minutes she spends recounting what happened to her is like the most painful thing i've ever fucking seen

i fucking just oh my god

celebrities are allowed to have private lives they're allowed to keep personal shit to themselves i'm so incoherently angry

people shouldn't ever have to talk about the fucked up shit that happened to them in front of thousands and thousands of people like this

it's fucking vile

also you know what she DOES fucking apologize, she DOES say that some of the tweets or whatever were poorly executed and poorly thought out, and she EXPLAINS

but it's pretty clear no one is sitting that far through the video

she even DIRECTLY ADDRESSES how the valid criticism by the actual people of color responding to her got BURIED under WHITE PEOPLE dunking on her for the woke points and it is EXHAUSTING that every single time this happens, that is exactly how the narrative goes

she also points out that GUESS WHAT POC AREN'T A MONOLITH THEY DON'T ALL HAVE THE SAME OPINION

like if you literally wake up to ten billion replies to a tweet you made how the fuck are you supposed to sort through the ones saying "hey this tweet is kinda insensitive" and the "you should literally die for directly contributing to hate crimes" like????????? are you kidding me?

i saw this while it was happening, i saw the valid criticism of people like "no yeah i think i see what she meant but she shoulda worded that differently" AND I ALSO SAW PEOPLE SAYING THAT SHE HAD PERSONALLY SENT DEATH THREATS TO PEOPLE

she said some dumb shit on the fucking internet and people dragged up twelve year old receipts and now she's spent twenty minutes of this video talking about something no one should ever, EVER have to talk about

god i'm like

it's been a long time since i've gotten this mad

i'm always so fucking scared to publicly get angry because i get it we're all progressives around here we all have opinions and ideas about problematic stuff, social justice and i don't do well personally with confrontation

i'm just so fucking sick of this shit, i'm so sick of it. yes we should address microaggressions and such like lindsay's tweets but the entire fucking fiasco was blown so fucking far out of proportion, and it ALWAYS is, every single time, no matter who it is

and i notice no one is responding to this plurk lmfao

I am here agreeing with your plurk, and I don't have much else to add

I mean, I'm responding now, but only to say I wasn't responding before because I don't know who this is/what the situation is

yeah okay that was a cynical thing for me to say, i'm sorry. i'm emotional

DryadGurrl it boils down to mostly unimportant internet horseshit

a content creator got cancelled on twitter two weeks ago, she just released a video trying to explain what all happened and address the critiques of her, and in the process she talked in detail about some traumatic shit that happened to her

which, in my opinion, no one should ever have to do, much less to thousands of people

also re: people not responding in here--i get it. confrontation sucks. i see the other plurks talking about this video and i'm not engaging with them for the exact same reason. it's hypocritical and cynical of me to be salty about people not replying in here

i need to calm down, oof

for what it's worth, i only vaguely saw what was going on and when i did i was confused at how big the backlash was, but i wasn't pleased with the fact that it sounded like she doubled down-- but it sounds like people are assuming she is and not hearing her out

so i am sorry for assuming what your stance was <3

i feel ambivalent about a lot of this stuff because people make mistakes and get better from them but people in the public eye don't get the chance to do that sometimes :/

I think what gets me is from what I can tell, people started attacking friends of hers--but only the ones who're girls and like. "Ah. There it is."

^THAT

it's always the same!!

also aninkywisp it's okay, i hope you don't think i was yelling at you. i'm yelling at the world

i did get that! i just wanted to clarify that i didn't have a very good picture of anything

but yes anakha it's ALWAYS the same

yeah that part is. gross. and unsurprising.

they come after the friends of the content creator and are like "so are you gonna denounce this? are you gonna stop being friends with this person who has been revealed to be Literal Evil? why aren't you saying anything?" and it's like shut the fuck up

they come after the friends who are women, POC, lgbtq etc like "oh we need your opinion here as a member of that community, you need to speak for the ENTIRE group"

But heaven fucking forbid they go after the (popular) guy friends.

and i know the term "witch hunt" is really uhhhhhh it has a lot of new and interesting connotations these days but that's really what it feels like

"i saw lindsay ellis posting problematic content!" kind of shit

you become guilty by association, just like you become guilty by association for DARING to consume their content

like immediately after lindsay ellis deleted her twitter i saw people going "yay we killed her! NOW LET'S GO AFTER SARAH Z AND PHILOSOPHY TUBE AND CONTRAPOINTS AND JENNY NICHOLSON BECAUSE THEY'RE ALL WHITE WOMEN WHO SHOULD ALSO DIE!!"

people were literally tweeting at them like "we're coming for you next you white liberal female harlot!!"

and it's always like

five percent POC, with opinions that vary from "lol actually that was funny what you posted" to "eh that was kinda insensitive" to "literally DIE BITCH" because again! groups of people aren't a fucking monolith!!!!!

and then the other ninety five percent is white people, usually pretty young white people, who dogpile on them to prove that they're "one of the good whites"

and like

when you're an online presence with an audience and you're part of a marginalized group already, you are fielding that type of people who are cancelling you because they think it's what's right, and you are ALSO fielding harrassment from the right wing people who literally want you fucking dead

can you even IMAGINE how much that must fuck you up?

it's like

it's like being bisexual, or ace i guess. where you're like "hey i'm part of the queer community" so you have the god-fearing right wing being like "ur going to hell and i hope you get run over by a semi" and you also have your fellow queers, who are supposed to have your back, being like "ummm you're actually not allowed in our spaces sweaty"

"ur not a real gay, we're gonna dunk on you and cause the same kind of emotional damage as the actual nazis who want us all dead, just in a different way from them"

anyway i fucking hate online leftism so much

as someone who did watch the video, I am still very critical of lindsey because when all she had to do was say "I'm sorry, I said some offensive stuff and it won't happen again", she made a two hour video that may be monetized that comes across as condescending and, at one point, still insults a Jewish person she's "apologizing" to by using that pseudonym

that misgenders them when doing so

there are people on tumblr who are being dicks that want to "cancel" her for misogynistic reasons, this is true, but she was not on fact canceled for a bad movie take with that last dragon movie, it was for doubling down on a racist sentiment she made and for calling the Asian community "crazies" when they told her that it was rude

okay but can you imagine what it's like to wake up in the morning, see that THOUSANDS of people have replied to you, and then try to sort those out between the ones going "hello white lady please kys" and the ones being like "hey actually this was kind of a dumb take, you should have worded this better"

have you ever had thousands and thousands of people angry at you? because i haven't

have you ever had thousands and thousands of people mad at you, multiple times in your life, to the point that you can no longer parse out the stuff that's valid and the stuff that isn't? because that sounds fucking traumatic as fuck

she literally talks in the video about how the tweet was badly worded, how some of the criticism was valid, how she shouldn't have called people "crazies"

misgendering a twitter user is bad yes but can you expect someone who is already in that mindset to give a random detractor on twitter the time of day?

she should have confirmed their pronouns before using pronouns at all but like

this is a fucking ouraborus at this point

there was always gonna be something other mistake in any video she made or any tweet she made or anything because people can't be perfect all the time

Amber Goldsmith (she/her, they/them) on Twitter

also you say "all she had to do was apologize" but that's absolutely not true. people have wanted a reason to rip her apart since she defended contrapoints

it's also been deleted but jordain seales, a black vtuber, has spoken about how lindsay told her that her sexual assault was "not a big deal" compared to her own

She brings why "just apologize and we'll stop" doesn't really solve the problem to, by the by.

brings up*

how in the world could lindsay have known that this person was on the spectrum? is she supposed to like do a deep dive into every single twitter person who responded to her?

Personally, you can still dislike Lindsey for what she has done, what she's said, etc. But it doesn't really solve the bigger issue that she was also talking about. What Contrapoints talked about. etc. Which is that what happened really shouldn't have happened because cancel culture in itself is a lot more damaging.

is it bad that lindsay had something like that happen to her? yes, absolutely. is it fair for "thousands of people to hate her"? probably not when they are doing it simply out of malice and not out of genuine criticism

also "just apologize and we'll stop" is such a fucking abusive mentality in the first place

okay. look. you put quotes around "thousands of people" just then. can you clarify for me, because internet text speech often loses a lot of nuance, whether you are doing that because you are directly quoting me, or because you are saying it sarcastically

THIS WASNT CANCEL CULTURE that got her to leave twitter, and calling genuine criticism for your racism that makes it all seem disingenuous with her apology. she said rude shit, double downs on it instead of apologizing, and then deleted twitter to then come back with a video that is two hours long and, during her sins portion, rings a bell and takes a shot

it just makes the whole thing incredibly condescending and as if it's really all about her and her pain and not how her comments have hurt a lot of people. not just for the dragon movie take, not just for the really bad take about fanfic of a black person shipped with their slave driver, but several other prominent people, including people who

used to be friends with her and are now not because she has told them that their experience with sexual assault or biphobia and the like "are not a big deal" in comparison to her own

i just don't understand how a normal human being can be expected to look at a wall of vitriol and not feel that 1) it's fucking overwhelming and 2) that all the hatred starts to look the same

literally the best thing she could have done is wait to make a measured response, and she addresses the stuff she actually did wrong multiple times in the video

but we're also not entitled to details about her personal life like that, we're not entitled to know the fine details of her friendships and the shit she said in private like come on

it's not an excuse to make these racist comments in the first place just because you're "overwhelmed" by whatever criticism is thrown your way over anything you say. like how no one excuses JK Rowling for her transphobia, even when she turned around and wrote an essay trying to excuse by saying her own sexual assault made her views vali

*valif

*valid dang plurk

i mean except for contrapoints herself who made a huge effort to empathize and understand where rowling was coming from, even though rowling absolutely doesn't deserve it

also like.......saying that raya and ATLA are similar isn't racist. calling the massive amount of people accusing you of that "crazy" isn't specifically calling asian/POC with actual critiques crazy, it's calling the response as a whole crazy. which is abelist language and she shouldn't have said

it started that way but then she goes on to comment when the thread was originally uphow raya was all white people working on it... which it wasnt, it was people of that actual culture, and thus people were offended that she compared avatar, written by white people cribbing off asian culture

and the harriet tweet was pure shit, about exactly as shit as the fact that they made up a twinky white guy for the movie for god knows what reason, and as shit as the tendency for people to ship the abuser with the abuse victim because "uwu redemption arcs" or whatever

was somehow more original than a movie that asian people used their own culture for

also bruh like three people of asian descent worked on raya, and saying that ATLA inspired lots of other works isn't a bad thing? it's just a fact?

and then saying "you'd have to squint to see the racism in what I'm saying", which... yeah that was a bad choice of words attempting to defend yourself linds

that take has never made sense to me, like regardless of who worked on raya it still seems like a fairly mediocre movie

yeah no, that was really bad choice of words. but that's really all it is, bad word choice

i mean it's a common saying, people say that all the time

having a bad choice of words is one thing, but doing it multiple times in comments about poc people/ things to do with their culture is not a good look

like i really think that this whole thing wouldn't have blown up as much as it had if not for the cultural context and state of the world. the anti-asian violence, the pandemic, the discourse around china. people are listening for dog whistles, and when you listen for them you tend to hear them

also did she do it multiple times? because i only saw one single tweet where she used the phrase

I mean other tweets that involve bad word choices in tweets, like this one, the one about the fanfic comment, or... actually I don't remember if she brings it up in this video but

and that seems to be part of why she's leaving twitter, because she's sarcastic a lot and that easily gets taken out of context

did she address that in the same day as the raya tweet, she also made a really bad tweet calling soul a pro life movie and stating that abortions and miscarriages are practically the same thing

okay but. hrmmg. that's yet another thing that she has some very personal backstory about that she really, really shouldn't have to talk about in a public setting

no one asked for her backstory tho. or even said anything trying to pry for a backstory tho

I kind of feel like you guys are having two different arguments? The issues of "is Lindsey Ellis being an asshole" and "does she deserve the horrifying vitriol she regularly gets" are two separate things. The answer to the second is obviously a resounding 'no' because no one deserves that, but that doesn't necessarily mean the first is also no.

also like........if you read it that way, then soul kind of really is having a pro-life stance. i haven't seen it yet because it's hard to get access to any fucking movie these days but if the stance is "even people who haven't been born have souls" like

in-universe that's a nice vibe, but in the larger context that is in-fucking-credibly problematic

also EchoDoctor yes. absolutely right

like okay. wailords you are right, the video overall comes off as very condescending, the apologies that were genuinely warranted felt kind of dishonest, and she's making something about her when there's a larger discussion that has nothing to do with white people happening

yeah basically that's what I was trying to get at: she doesn't deserve the amount of hate she gets from people who are clearly just looking for excuses to get her off twitter, but her video just makes her seem like an asshole still to the people she's genuinely hurt

i'm just trying to look at it from her perspective, because being attacked by many thousands of people on the internet IS a very personal experience and extremely upsetting and extremely traumatic, regardless of whether the person deserves it

and then having those people roll up with many-year-old receipts that you then feel like you have to explain and address is so incredibly messed up

the genuine criticism gets buried under the very very large amount of people who just hate her because she's friends with natalie wynn

when you're dealing with that much all at once it's just. impossible to deal with

like even personally, we're having this discussion right now and my heart is racing and i'm verging on an anxiety attack because i hate confrontation that much. even though this is a good discussion and i think we're being genuine and careful here!

i think if thousands of people were coming for my ass, and a good portion of them were coming at me in bad faith, telling me i had it coming (something that abusers frequently say anyway) and that i should just kms? i think i'd fucking check into a psych ward

I will say that natalie has made some rude comments about nonbinary/non passing trans folks, but that's for natalie to address, it's not lindsay's fault or her job to defend being natalie's friend

it's such an insane amount of pressure and emotional shit, regardless of whether you have experience with dealing with that many people saying that many things at the same time

also, man yeah, the natalie stuff....i mean that's a different discussion, but i will say that i have almost never admited to enjoying natalie's content simply because i'm afraid of the backlash

people went for lindsay back then and were like "you must cancel her" and lindsay was like "no?" and like. that's how it always happens. it's high school level shit where one friend is like "you can't be friends with that other person anymore ever"

except that friend one was never entitled to your friendship and was just an internet rando

god i never want to be even remotely famous

having even a slightly popular fanfic scares the fucking shit out of me

Parasocial relationships can get really messed up, yeah.

it's not just that

for the past five years i have lived in terror that someone's gonna find some like, bullshit from 2011 and be like "hey soup you're actually evil" because i see this happen to tiny content creators like me every single day

like the very rare hate i get i've been able to manage usually because it's funny but fucking christ man

imagine having thousands of people waiting for the first chance to eat you alive

yeah

Yes, that is a terrifying prospect.

I am so glad little elementary and high school aged me grew up without much of an online presence

like who wasn't a shithead ten years ago?

are we not always in the process of building a better self

like this artist i follow drew some totally innocuous hades fanart awhile back and they got driven off the internet because people decided to interpret them as a pedophile because people are just fucking insane (yes i'm sorry ableist language i know i just never know how else to say this shit)

Excuse you, I came into being fully-formed and never even experienced a second of being wrong about anything, ever, in my li- ahahahaha I can't even finish writing that with a straight face.

yes indeed i a white woman who lived in suburbia for most my life have a perfect handle on race and lgbt stuff, i have zero internalized bias that i think about and address on a daily basis

I was a whiny little jackass with boundary issues when I first started getting back into RP and boy did it show. ...Also I stabbed a guy with a fork once in middle school, but honestly I feel like the boundary issues were worse.

It was plastic fork, he was fine.

i had some pretty eco-fash ideas for a short time in high school that so i'm very fucking fortunate that the internet wasn't quite so developed back then

Life is an endless motion of becoming.

also spent some time on an atheist website and while i never saw anything problematic there that i can remember, i'm sure there was because atheists tend toward that sorta.....facts over feelings bullshit

Sometimes that means becoming someone who desperately wants to go back in time and smack yourself upside the head.

god

ugh i'm just. so tired of this shit

i'm tired of people getting ripped apart for barely anything because it feels almost the same as when a creator gets revealed to be an actual horrible person

just this overwhelming disappointment and rage

ugh

when lindsay was talking about her sexual assault i had to stop the video because i was so fucking mad

no one should ever have to expose their trauma to thousand of people like that

god and in a half an hour it's critical role time and i'm not ready for more heightened emotions

Would it help to take a break for a little bit and try not to look at more stuff about this?

Like, you're an adult and you know your own mind best, but it feels like you're having a rough time with anxiety shit at the moment.

i gotta eat dinner, i haven't eaten in hours and i don't really have much food in the house anyway, so. toast i guesse

god yeah if I were ever internet famous I'd sign off and never come back after seeing this kind of thing happen so many times

basically