because it's such a peversion of everything that spider-man stands for lol. even aside from everything he pulled with miles, it's a whole cosmic interconnected system built on this hivemind narcissism about how much more important the concept of spider-man is than everything and everyone else. and it's all just an infinite trolley problem generator

miguel is very tragic and sympathetic but he's. much more of a tragic and misguided villain in this movie more than anything, and he's fundamentally lost sight of what being spider-man is about in the face of his despair. "you have the power to save these people but if you save these people something bad will potentially happen, so let them die."

that's not very spiderman!!!! peter B parker said in a deleted scene from the first movie that "You can't think about saving the world, you just have to think about saving one person."

on a meta level i just think of how absolutely hopeless this story would be if miguel was proven right about basically anything. being a hero is useless, choice is useless, free will is useless, saving people is important until it's not and even then was it ever important or was it inevitable, being spider-man is entirely about suffering, get over it.

and that feels very contrary to what they're actually going for

man. i'm due for a rewatch but this feels about right

miguel's backstory in astv definitely feels like a perversion of classic spider-man story beats: possess a certain power (dimension hopping) -> suffer great loss not realizing the consequences of said powers -> try to act responsible for said powers

and with miguel's case he just. outright decide making a cult-like society is the best course of action

he's such a good character and a great contrast to spot as another antagonist in the story but people saying he was in the right misses the themes in spider-man

Miguel's a fascinating and great character but I'm surprised anyone would think he's in the right. Especially when later on, Gwen defies the whole thing about a captain needing to die. When Miles says, "nah. I'm gonna do my own thing," it's meant to be in direct contrast to Miguel's belief about destiny/fate/no free will

its not even that people think hes in the right, the way he treated miles is pretty blatantly shitty, but a lot of people take his canon theory as fact, which is slightly more fair given what we have been presented with so far but still kind of crazy to me. miguel snarling that miles isn't and never was spider-man is a big motif with him because he IS

and that's just not something that a mathematical algorithm divvying up people's lives can really grasp. (sorry lyla)

subwaymaster: yeah!!! like miguel is very much taking responsibility to a terrifying extreme that borders on an authoritarian cult. both spot and miguel want to take control of the entire multiverse, just for very different reasons.

Didn’t Gwen point it out that he was acting like a villian??? Like come on

“We’re supposed to be the good guys”
“We are”
He thinks he’s right and for good reasons! But that doesn’t make him a hero

I need to rewatch but I didn't think the movie was subtle about Miguel being an antagonist?

it's been a minute and i don't recall it being subtle wrt his behavour but i think there is some confusion around whether he's "right" based on whether or not the world starts to disintegrate if you don't follow the canon?
and i think miguel gets hung up on the fact that miles is an anomaly since the spider wasn't from his world

Yeah honestly I think it's one thing to have varying interpretations of what the specific results of an anomaly would be and it's another thing to think the movie's rhetorical intent is anything but "the guy who says You Don't Belong is misguided at best"

and also.... Miguel my guy... You are an anomaly

mans has tunnel vision for real lmao like what makes you think your experience is universal???
and it wouldn't surprise me if all his tampering and his stubborn obsession with It's Gotta Be Like This is why it's Like This in the first place? or at least a part of it

ofc i love this man because i love a man who does the wrong thing with the best intentions but for that reason you know he's not a hero lmaooo

Right like I love Oscar Isaac in this nice meaty role

you said meaty...

Oh hello

Miguel's DESTRUCTIVE Idea of "SPIDER-MAN"this is a good video

When a DEEP Character Pretends to be SHALLOW... (Hob...also this one.....