And isn't it kind of saying, ignore the people, let the special few do what they think best?

Isn't the problem education, and informing people so they vote with more knowledge of what they do, rather than big brothering?

the people voted Hillary, she was the popular vote.

Well I guess what it would really be saying is "fuck you, it's not our fault you live in a shit town"

its undemocratic to not use a 1 person 1 vote system

most people didnt even vote, and those who did voted majority, for Hillary

Ok follow up, didn't this happen in 2012 with Obama winning the electoral but not the popular vote?

I'm playing devils advocate, of course.

Trying to figure out how your electoral system works

representational equality is important, and usually benefits the democrats.

with exceptions being al gore and hillary clinton

I also have similar questions around superdelegates bte

as far as I'm aware, obama won the popular vote

Fact is the USA is not a Democracy. We have been a Federal Republic of 50 equal states since Alaska and Hawaii were accepted into the union before that really all the way to the founding of the republic.

List of United States presidential elections by popular vote marg...

lists him as winning it, but that could be bad info, I cant find a quick link to say he lost it

the electoral college is in place to make sure that large population centers do not command control over the government, which they would do every election without the electoral college

this protects minority voters and dissenters from being completely overruled every election

It's a balancing mechanism. It juggles the paradox of "majority rules" with "everyone gets heard".

so larger population areas have MORE say but small areas do not have NO say

California has many more electoral votes, but if it was based on population it would mean their candidate always won.

which is not democratic.

the electoral college may be a flawed system, but it is an important system to ensure equality of voice in a place where populations centers could overwhelm the smaller states.

But it is a tool so that minorities are heard and represented, not a tool to overturn a general election result, correct?

Would it be safe to say that it would be a gross perversion of that particular mechanism

that is where it gets sort of grey

it's a complex system

AND as votes are tallied popular vote changes

for instance when Obama won the electoral vote in 2012 he was well behind mitt romney, but then over time he actually ended up winning the popular vote

well technically aren't they supposed to keep us from doing dumb shit - to put it simply? lol

so I mean......

I mean, I don't want Trump in office any more than the next guy, but I don't really particularly want a mechanism for fairness used that way

even though the original election results showed romney ahead in the popular vote

I don't really think it is a good idea to undermine the electoral college

when we may need to rely on it in our favor in the future

I think perhaps if so many states were not winner takes all it would be a slightly better system

It's health to have a "stop dumb shit" mechanism, but I'm also just thinking, k, half the country has been somewhat disenfranchised for 8 years, they finally got a say, and now this thing comes along

and threatens to overturn what they voiced.

that said I still signed the petition, because it isn't going to happen but it is important to show dissent with the presidential-elect.

in the name of "knowing better"

i think it's a good way to voice your dissent, because it's important to remain active

but i dont know about if it actually happens

ehrinlove: the thing is the system was designed to protect the States rights to choose how they use their electors.

it's not going to happen, it would undermine the election system.

i feel like it's....idk.

ironically unfair lol

truthfully, the entire system needs a full overhaul but... thats not gunna happen any time soon

what REALLY happened here in my opinion is that the government has failed us to the point that we are in this mess

yeah, i think events leading to this started ages ago and people just kept ignoring it

and people just want to be heard. once they're noticed, things tend to not be as crazy.

People don't understand that the United States (is literally 50 different countries UNITED

no one should ever think they have to side with a racist, sexist, dumbass just because they think the country is in the shitter

but people did

yeah

and it makes me really mad

also with these petitions there is no way to verify votes in the same way there is with elections

so it really is not going to happen

BUT the people are saying "this is not ok"

and I am allllll for that

I have to tell you I do not think Bernie would have won the election either.

he doesn't appeal to a huge population of American citizens

I did not want Trump to win the election either.

I think Hillary was the best shot for the Dems

I voted for her

But by our rules that have governed us since 1790 he did

I think less people would have been voting across the board

i actually agree, i think that hillary represented more of "the same" when half the country wanted change. donald trump represented radical change (although a different flavour than bernie) and ended up being

As it was voting was down for both major cadidates.

someone that people could relate to (simply, change)

In 29 states, the electors are legally required to vote for the candidate their state chose. 21 states allow them to vote any way they choose, even

Bernie inspires a lot of people, especially young voters. But his idealism is not realistic. I do not think the huge population of older white men and women would have turned out for him and that demographic

for people that were not on the ballot. They can legally vote for ANYONE.

would be necessary for him to win

Nobody won by a landslide or got super numbers. Clinton has won the popular vote only by the size of a mid to large sized city.

trump kind of brought out voters who normally wouldn't, because he managed to get people interested and following the dramz, not unlike american idol.

Literally not undemocratic, it would be very democratic in the definition of rule of the people, the popular vote. It would be unrepublican, in the idea that this is a republic where we choose people who

it reminds me of the huge push for ron paul, actually.

Historically, 99% have voted the way they pledged. It is $1000 fine not to, I believe.

SexySiloPuddinPie: those 21 states also select their electors from the party of who won their state.

I didn't know about the $1k fine, very interesting

represent and make the decisions and it's kind of funny though how the literal meaning of the words get those results

The $1000 fine is only in some states. In others there are no penalties.

It's not universal.

I think the problem this election was dissent and displeasure with the government

I'm learning a lot, thanks guys.

Only in five presidential elections has the candidate with the most popular votes lost, including Gore and Clinton.

Obama never lost the popular vote.

and then you take the dissent and displeasure that is already there and you feed it with bullshit wikileaks about the DNC and the FBI bullshit

I think all of us are tired of being lied to by politicians... all politicians

Obama lost when the initial results were in. He earned the popular vote after all the ballots were completely in.

I don't think it is. it's how the electoral was designed. apparently during the gore/bush situation FL legislature was gonna say fuck it and put their electoral to bush

Obama had amazing numbers for popular votes to be perfectly honest.

but decided to not do that.

that's why the republicans were having shit fits the night of

I think Hillary's popular vote margin will end up being larger than the initial results reflect too

whatever happens happens. I'll still have to slave away for the man and stuff so however this plays out is how it is

As to your question: yes, it would be less "democratic" for the electors to change their votes. It is legal, though, and I have no problem with it.

The hillbillies would start Civil War 2.0, though.

All I am saying is the chances of them changing is slim to none.

I do not think the unrest that would occur would benefit this country if the electoral vote was changed. But I DO think the country would be in better hands for 4 years.

Daeberethwen - much like football, only the score at the end matters. Halftime doesn't mean shit.

rune is right. it's nearly unprecedented and they weren't willing to choose where to place their votes in 2000 (FL) to avoid dealing with hanging Chads and counting votes

This country is just in a shit position.

I can't say things will get better because I can't tell the future but I hope things do not get worse than they are.

Ok cool, thanks, I learned a lot about the electoral college today

we were put in a shit position from the beginning. Bernie would have been a different story

I mean not that hillary is unqualified or as shitty as the Donald. just she didn't garner the votes that obama did in 12 and 08

and that hurt them because the sneak mofo redneck fucks who don't do polls came out. and pulled h ahead

to be perfectly honest I would have loved to see Bernie vs Cruz but that's my conservative side talking.

If I didn't understand my white male privilege prior to Tuesday, I sure fucking get it now. (I understood, duh, but I super get it now). I'm so sorry to the rest of you. Oh so sorry.

Bernie wasn't my political leanings but he'd have brought the support they needed (votes) to pull it from trump. though

I encouraged Dems in va to do the Republican primary to vote him out (we could do that here)

I don't agree with most of what Bernie was behind but I respect his truth and honesty more than most politicians

I could drink with Bernie and not talk politics. I could hang with him.

I think he was good people

he is good people

lol yah he's not dead. hell be back I think

I'm not sure he could pull off a lot of his ideas but he would have tried.

I hope he acts as a counter to anything too crazy from the Senate to be honest

SexySiloPuddinPie: Someone said Donald's a bullshitter, Hillary's a liar. For me, that seemed exactly white male privilege in a nutshelll

rune this is McCains last run. he has no fucks to give. I hope he gives trump a run for him money as he doesn't like him.

I think you have a pretty good handle on the issue with trying to subvert the current process.

Let him be president. I am ready to watch the world burn. Hate won.

I am not understanding people claiming 'he hates the gay'. He is probably the most LGBT friendly President elect we have ever had.

Pence hates gay people.

he believes in conversion therapy.

if you believe in conversion therapy you are doing it wrong.

that's all I'll say about that. pence is an odd duck and he's dangerous. I don't like him.

i admit i just skimmed the responses here, but i really wish people would stop saying Obama didn't win the popular vote in 2012. he won both. 332 electoral votes (270 needed) and 51.1% of the vote.

Pence has a sorry record in regards to any and all gay rights and non-discrimination efforts. He's voted anti-gay at every turn.

omgwtfbarb: I have no idea where that misinformation came from. He had at a minimum 6 million more votes than either of the present candidate.

Runestar: yeah - i just triple checked it because i've seen it so many times on plurk today that i was like, "wait, am i wrong?". but no. not wrong.

I clarified what I meant here. The reason for the confusion is that when he won the electoral votes needed to win the election, he was behind by quite a bit in the popular vote

he wasn't ahead until after, which is why the republicans flipped their shit

Daeberethwen: those Republicans that bitched don't understand elections in the US.

Daeberethwen: oh, my comment was directed at Liq, not you.

oh, well I think that's where people get confused

because all the repubs were complaining, like people are referring to trumps 2012 twitter rage fest about protesting obama's election where he mentions he lost the popular vote

when really it was because the election was called when enough electoral votes were in while the popular vote was still being counted

That coming from Trump.... Who didn't know what the nuclear triad is.

they were using it to show he's hypocritical saying protesting his election is unfair, that's all.